| A témához tartozó oldalak: [1 2] > | EU Tender TRAD 19 Téma indítója: Rita Utt
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Rita Utt 
Franciaország
Local time: 17:26
angol - német
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| Jean Lachaud
Egyesült Államok
Local time: 11:26
angol - francia
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| Qu'est-ce qu'on apprend ? | Jun 11, 2019 |
Rita Utt wrote:
EU (...) said they encountered quality problems with the big agencies they chose last time.
| | | | Claudio Porcellana (X)
Olaszország
Local time: 17:26
angol - olasz
| quality problems with the big agencies they chose last time... | Jun 11, 2019 |
and the big agencies they chose the second last time, the third last time, etc....
I understand a new EU tender is online as far as some total stranger of an agency jumps out from nowhere asking for my data 
and I usually reply that these tenders requires so much papers and hassle, and rates are usually so low, that I decided since years to only collaborate with agencies that give me regularly jobs, that... See more and the big agencies they chose the second last time, the third last time, etc....
I understand a new EU tender is online as far as some total stranger of an agency jumps out from nowhere asking for my data
and I usually reply that these tenders requires so much papers and hassle, and rates are usually so low, that I decided since years to only collaborate with agencies that give me regularly jobs, that is not the case of all LPs that ask for my data
[Edited at 2019-06-11 21:47 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Rita Utt
Franciaország
Local time: 17:26
angol - német
+ ...
TÉMAINDÍTÓ | They would like groups of independent translators to apply | Jun 12, 2019 |
But as we told them yesterday at the meeting in Paris, the way they organised the tender, it's not easy for groups of independent translators. So if somebody here is interested, just have a look at the link ...
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Rita Utt
Franciaország
Local time: 17:26
angol - német
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TÉMAINDÍTÓ | Low value contracts | Jun 12, 2019 |
In language combinations where there is less demand, they offer low value contracts which imply much less paper work ....
| | | | Kaspars Melkis
Egyesült Királyság
Local time: 16:26
angol - lett
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| Good and bad things about this tender | Jun 12, 2019 |
I just read the specifications. The best thing is that they value a degree in medicine much higher than a degree in translation with a degree in pharmacy and related sciences in between.
The negative thing is, of course, the amount of paperwork to be provided. It is clearly too much for a professional translator. It can be done but agencies will be much better equipped dealing with it. The most confusing is the item 1.7 of the submission form (a recent extract from the judicial reco... See more I just read the specifications. The best thing is that they value a degree in medicine much higher than a degree in translation with a degree in pharmacy and related sciences in between.
The negative thing is, of course, the amount of paperwork to be provided. It is clearly too much for a professional translator. It can be done but agencies will be much better equipped dealing with it. The most confusing is the item 1.7 of the submission form (a recent extract from the judicial record). It is explained that it could be a recent certificate issued by the competent authorities regarding the payment of social security contributions and the payment of taxes. Anybody knows whether the HMRC can issue such a certificate and how to request it?
Also they don't have any estimates of work volume which will make it difficult for a freelancer to plan ahead. An agency can more easily absorb varying volumes of work.
I don't like their inelastic Trados discounts. First of all, Trados is not really that helpful in this type of projects. Half of my work now does not involve TM. Also, 20% for full matches, is too low, in my opinion. My experience is that amount of effort in this type of projects is very individual and my clients often add surcharge based on extra time spent, in addition to the base fee calculated by the word count. Their conditions are worse than of many agencies I work for.
This can be mitigated if an agency quotes a higher rate per word and then absorbs the risk by hiring cheaper translators. In this setting quality is bound to suffer.
The biggest issue for me is in the item 1.6.
The assignment procedure works by proposing an assignment simultaneously via its portal to all the contractors in a lot and automatically award it to the highest ranked contractor that expressed its availability within the deadline given.
If I understand it correctly, it means that even if you win the tender, you will not be contacted when appropriate jobs become available. Rather, you will be expected to regularly monitor job boards and always indicate your availability among up to 15 potential candidates, and only one of them will get the job. That is the worst offer ever. Thanks but no thanks.
[Edited at 2019-06-12 07:00 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Rita Utt
Franciaország
Local time: 17:26
angol - német
+ ...
TÉMAINDÍTÓ
Hello,
This is strange, because they explained yesterday that they abolished the ranking and they gave yearly estimates of workload as well of prices of the translation agencies who won the pilot project tender (should be in the tender documents as well)
They said also that they inject their machine translation in pre-pepared translations without discounting them (which might be very interesting)
They told us to read the English Version of Tender and FAQ section and to ask que... See more Hello,
This is strange, because they explained yesterday that they abolished the ranking and they gave yearly estimates of workload as well of prices of the translation agencies who won the pilot project tender (should be in the tender documents as well)
They said also that they inject their machine translation in pre-pepared translations without discounting them (which might be very interesting)
They told us to read the English Version of Tender and FAQ section and to ask questions.
So if you are interested, go ahead and ask. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Kaspars Melkis
Egyesült Királyság
Local time: 16:26
angol - lett
+ ...
Hello Rita,
Sorry, I was reading about the other one: https://cdt.europa.eu/en/tenders/flscient19
Thanks for correcting me. I was sent the link by email and assumed it is the same. I will study this offer now.
I remember (if I am right) that someone on proz had circulated the list of previous winners. Their prices seemed to be so low that I don't know if it is ... See more Hello Rita,
Sorry, I was reading about the other one: https://cdt.europa.eu/en/tenders/flscient19
Thanks for correcting me. I was sent the link by email and assumed it is the same. I will study this offer now.
I remember (if I am right) that someone on proz had circulated the list of previous winners. Their prices seemed to be so low that I don't know if it is even worth to read the proposal. ▲ Collapse
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I haven't read the whole pile of things to know before submitting, but I'd likely need half a day before actually doing anything towards making up an offer.
If the EU can't make their invitations to tender attractive to translators, if their requirements and terms are less competitive than what serious agencies offer, no wonder they don't get what they expect.
WE SELL OUR TIME.
The more time we spend on non-billable activities like free tests, case-making, hand-h... See more I haven't read the whole pile of things to know before submitting, but I'd likely need half a day before actually doing anything towards making up an offer.
If the EU can't make their invitations to tender attractive to translators, if their requirements and terms are less competitive than what serious agencies offer, no wonder they don't get what they expect.
WE SELL OUR TIME.
The more time we spend on non-billable activities like free tests, case-making, hand-holding or USP blurb, the less our yearly income. The only way to offset wasted time is by charging real money, not 0.08. Is it so difficult to understand?
It's strange, because from what I've seen, the EU offer compelling, tax-free packages to their in-house translators. Therefore they can offer royal conditions to translators, but only when they're employed.
Start with EUR10,000 for full-month work to match in-house wages. How many words is an in-house translator expected to deliver in one month (legal working time, no work late at night/weekends to ensure timely delivery...)? 500/hour? 60k/month?
Do they offer external translators 0.17/word or more? With the added flexibility, admin/asset cost reduction that freelancers offer? No? Why?
Remember, half of our gross income goes to tax, compulsory contributions, provisions for illness and holiday, pension plans, business expenses...
I am not going to burst an artery sympathising with the challenge of getting proper translators. Offer 0.25 and I am sure the response will be more satisfactory.
Seriously: submitting an offer to the EU seems a lot of hassle and unbilled time for a single freelance translator. Unless they have a lot of time on their hands, but that's not necessarily a good sign...
And in practice, I'd have to bill EUR1.5M/year in my language combination. Too many zeros for me. And a "translator team" faces the sames issues as an agency. Agencies are much better placed to do that with their back-office departments, but if they require a 50-70% share for it, the EU will stay stuck.
On the other hand, extensive invitations to tender may be the only way to ensure everybody is given the same opportunity, without possibility of bribery or undue preference.
Philippe ▲ Collapse
| | | | Rita Utt
Franciaország
Local time: 17:26
angol - német
+ ...
TÉMAINDÍTÓ
That's more or less what we told them yesterday.
They even want to pay, but they cannot fix a minimum price (and they have to take into account the prices offered in the tender)
I think things will change though (not yet in this tender)
because they told us, they had less and less inhouse translators, they would do more and more externalising
and poor quality means a lot of work for Inhouse translators.
So they will probably change to the better in the future
| | | | neilmac
Spanyolország
Local time: 17:26
spanyol - angol
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| Claudio Porcellana (X)
Olaszország
Local time: 17:26
angol - olasz
| 1,500,000 words certified needed | Jun 13, 2019 |
before somebody start raising their expectations, note that these tenders require you send a lot of reference letters, where the sum of your customers state you managed 1,500,000 words
now, unless you have one huge customer that gave you so much work, you'll have to ask for reference letters to tons of different customers...
in my case, for example, I produced that amount in 7 years, but spread among dozens of customers, that must ALL fill the reference letter...
... See more before somebody start raising their expectations, note that these tenders require you send a lot of reference letters, where the sum of your customers state you managed 1,500,000 words
now, unless you have one huge customer that gave you so much work, you'll have to ask for reference letters to tons of different customers...
in my case, for example, I produced that amount in 7 years, but spread among dozens of customers, that must ALL fill the reference letter...
not mentioning they must state the number of "pages", not words!
now, I hope that Rita Utt mentioned this absurd requirement to them...
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Claudio Porcellana (X)
Olaszország
Local time: 17:26
angol - olasz
AFAIK, DGT is the administrator, while CDT (http://cdt.europa.eu/it) is the operating arm that manages tenders on behalf of DGT
so Kaspars Melkis thoughts are sound and relevant, IMHO
| | | | Rita Utt
Franciaország
Local time: 17:26
angol - német
+ ...
TÉMAINDÍTÓ | Hello all of you | Jun 13, 2019 |
They said, they changed their procedure.
So maybe they ask for less references, knowing that agencies have been cheating on them anyway.
I've got the E-Mail adress of their representative in Paris.
So maybe we should send them some suggestions,
based on this discussion here.
What would we like ? What is impossible for us ?
| | | | Claudio Porcellana (X)
Olaszország
Local time: 17:26
angol - olasz
| they ask for less references | Jun 13, 2019 |
apparently nope
the offer I received (FL/SCIENT19) still requires 5,000 folders that are about 1,500,000 words
I checked my data now: to obtain that amount I have to start the count from 2013, with the amount spread among 10 customers
going further in the past I can double (and more) the data, but I lost many customers these years, or they came out of business, etc. so no way to reach them
some of the current customers don't like giving referen... See more apparently nope
the offer I received (FL/SCIENT19) still requires 5,000 folders that are about 1,500,000 words
I checked my data now: to obtain that amount I have to start the count from 2013, with the amount spread among 10 customers
going further in the past I can double (and more) the data, but I lost many customers these years, or they came out of business, etc. so no way to reach them
some of the current customers don't like giving references whatsoever: game-over
I think DGT/CDT officers live on Mars!
and it raises a question: considering that "so much experienced translators" are not "so much" in the world, how were tender's winners able to do the job in the past?
likely doing what DGT/CDT officers are afraid of, i.e. cheating... and if they insist on having impossible requirements, I think another disappointment is round the corner
[Edited at 2019-06-13 16:34 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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