| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Proofreading jobs / Starting out - advice? Thread poster: Jenny Nilsson
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Jenny Nilsson 
Sweden
Local time: 15:36
English to Swedish
TOPIC STARTER | Nice anekdote | Mar 28, 2012 |
Nicole Schnell wrote:
Ad agencies, however, are liable in full for any edition of printed brochures, ad campaigns and absolutely everything. Not only will they lose their client, they are also liable for all damages in terms of reputation and such. They pay their proofreaders well. There is too much money at stake.
sunanoo wrote:I am happy to hear some advice where to look for work. To be honest, I don't have a very broad network of agencies I translate for, so I am grateful for any advice in who to contact. I have already contacted several agencies but have not heard a peep back yet. Maybe there is something wrong with my applications, or I'm too impatient ;p
This thread has started to discuss whether I should be working with proofreading or not. I am interested in your experiences but I already know that I want to proofread. And as I mentioned, not only translated works.
Nicole Schnell wrote:
I am talking about high-dime direct clients, not language services provider agencies. I meant brick-and-mortar advertising agencies for food, fashion, furniture, insurance, cars and sneakers. Has nothing to do with translation. Only quality control.
Yes, I understood what type of ad agencies you meant. The "not only translated works" comment was directed at others reading this thread so as to try and fish some more suggestions in the "not only translated" area of work. Silly, perhaps, considering this is a place mainly for translators...
[Edited at 2012-03-28 16:08 GMT]
| | | | Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 06:36
English to German
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In memoriam | You might find it amazing | Mar 28, 2012 |
sunanoo wrote:
considering this is a place mainly for translators...
... how many of us are also copywriters or book or magazine editors or authors by their original profession. Translators are writers. The good ones, at least.
| | | | Robert Forstag
United States
Local time: 09:36
Spanish to English
+ ...
| I stand by what I wrote previously | Mar 29, 2012 |
@Sheila:
I guess that you and I have had very different experiences when it comes to proofreading. In a minority of cases, I've proofread translations that were very nicely done, and there was very little to correct or change. Given the rates that are typically paid for proofreading, this is the way it should always be. In my experience, however, this is the exception, and proofreading jobs are instead often simply thinly disguised rewriting jobs that are wanted on the cheap.
... See more @Sheila:
I guess that you and I have had very different experiences when it comes to proofreading. In a minority of cases, I've proofread translations that were very nicely done, and there was very little to correct or change. Given the rates that are typically paid for proofreading, this is the way it should always be. In my experience, however, this is the exception, and proofreading jobs are instead often simply thinly disguised rewriting jobs that are wanted on the cheap.
@Tomas:
I equally stand by the point you object to. I am not advocating an approach that nitpicks and "creates errors" that are not there. But if one is presented truly sloppy work that has a lot of real errors that can be identified, then I think this presents a natural opportunity to showcase one's abilities. For a beginner who is struggling to find clients (and this is the context of this thread) I think this is something important to recognize and take advantage of. And I don't see anything "not quite sane" about it.
In any case, I see such an opportunity as something to be exploited mainly by either beginners or veteran translators in desperate straits to find new clients. Those who are more solidly established can certainly find more interesting and remunerative things to do than showing how good they are at cleaning up the messes of other translators for scandalously low rates.
[Edited at 2012-03-29 02:46 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Phil Hand
China
Local time: 21:36
Chinese to English
| My experience is the same Robert's | Mar 29, 2012 |
I'm doing some proofreading for an art gallery, and most of the material was written by English speakers in English. It's a completely different experience to what most proofreading/revising is! I'm flying through, making quite a reasonable rate of pay, and turning a document which is already decent into something consistent and professional-looking.
Most of the time, proofreading translations is just retranslation.
Sunanoo - I can recommend art organisations as proofr... See more I'm doing some proofreading for an art gallery, and most of the material was written by English speakers in English. It's a completely different experience to what most proofreading/revising is! I'm flying through, making quite a reasonable rate of pay, and turning a document which is already decent into something consistent and professional-looking.
Most of the time, proofreading translations is just retranslation.
Sunanoo - I can recommend art organisations as proofreading clients. The ones I've worked with pay well and the reading is interesting. They have a need because there's a lot of international exchange in the arts.
I'd steer clear of translation agencies as clients, because they may well give you horrible texts. If you can establish relationships directly with translators you know and trust, you're likely to get better work that way. ▲ Collapse
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| Don't forget to point out the best as well as the mistakes | Mar 29, 2012 |
Robert Forstag wrote:
...
@Tomas:
...
But if one is presented truly sloppy work that has a lot of real errors that can be identified, then I think this presents a natural opportunity to showcase one's abilities.
...
At a very early stage a colleague taught me the importance of complimenting the translator on what is good.
For one thing it adds credibility to any criticism, and shows you are not just nit-picking.
For another, it is always useful to get feedback that distinguishes between 'this is fine, keep up the good work', and 'OK, but there is room for improvement'.
And thirdly, acknowledging the good work of others (when deserved) is possibly an even more effective way of showcasing one's own abilities.
We're only human after all!
Apart from that, if you mess up a good translation instead of improving it, you are only showing your own nitpicking approach, not your expertise!
A little banal, but that is what a lot of threads in this forum are basically about...
| | | | Jenny Nilsson
Sweden
Local time: 15:36
English to Swedish
TOPIC STARTER | Art galleries | Mar 29, 2012 |
Phil Hand wrote:
Sunanoo - I can recommend art organisations as proofreading clients. The ones I've worked with pay well and the reading is interesting. They have a need because there's a lot of international exchange in the arts.
Thanks so much. I will be contacting some art galleries and hope I can find someone in need of me. That kind of work sounds very interesting.
| | | | Robert Forstag
United States
Local time: 09:36
Spanish to English
+ ...
| The reality of the novice translator | Mar 29, 2012 |
Cristine wrote:
And thirdly, acknowledging the good work of others (when deserved) is possibly an even more effective way of showcasing one's own abilities.
_____
"When deserved" is the operative concept here. I have indeed handed back texts that I've proofread with comments along the lines of "this is very solid work, and I didn't see the need to change much." But again, this has typically not been my experience. Like Phil and myself, many an unwary transl... See more Cristine wrote:
And thirdly, acknowledging the good work of others (when deserved) is possibly an even more effective way of showcasing one's own abilities.
_____
"When deserved" is the operative concept here. I have indeed handed back texts that I've proofread with comments along the lines of "this is very solid work, and I didn't see the need to change much." But again, this has typically not been my experience. Like Phil and myself, many an unwary translator has been saddled with time-consuming rewrites masquerading as (and offering the pay of) proofreading jobs.
Three points bear mention here:
1.
The role of a proofreader is not that of an elementary school teacher reassuring an insecure student of the merits of his or her work (even if the work really is of questionable merit). The proofreader must evaluate the output of other translators according to professional standards. This might mean revising what is merely acceptable so that it reads as well-crafted, polished prose. I would not call this nitpicking, but rather conscientious proofreading.
2.
It can be very difficult for a beginner to establish relationships with clients, and therefore acceptance of "proofreading" jobs (which so many translators avoid, for the reasons I've stated) can work as a way of getting one's foot in the door. Of course, you can't typically make acceptable money on the kinds of clean-up work I've mentioned, but it can be a way to cut your teeth and show your mettle to agencies who may later decide to offer you more remunerative straight translation jobs.
3.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings to those who haven't yet awakened to this reality, but the fact is that translators working in the same pair and within the same subject areas are competing against one another. In the case of a common pair like Spanish-to-English where there are so many unqualified and marginally qualified individuals offering their services, this seems especially important to bear in mind. The situation is certainly different in other pairs, but no combination is exempt from this element of competition. And doing an effective job of proofreading (of the professional, and not the nitpicking variety) is a way of standing out from among the herd.
[Edited at 2012-03-29 13:50 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Phil Hand
China
Local time: 21:36
Chinese to English
| Proofreader is not a judge of the translator | Mar 29, 2012 |
It's a weird point you're making there, Christine. In a well-functioning translation process, it is absolutely NOT the job of the proofreader to "assess" the first translation. The proofreader is there to do proofreading. There's an assumption of competence on the part of the translator. But typos happen to everyone (see the title of my previous post!), and it's the proofreader's job to catch them. Finding lots of things to change is not (necessarily) a reflection of poor quality translation; eq... See more It's a weird point you're making there, Christine. In a well-functioning translation process, it is absolutely NOT the job of the proofreader to "assess" the first translation. The proofreader is there to do proofreading. There's an assumption of competence on the part of the translator. But typos happen to everyone (see the title of my previous post!), and it's the proofreader's job to catch them. Finding lots of things to change is not (necessarily) a reflection of poor quality translation; equally, a translation in which I change nothing may be no more than minimally competent.
The problem is precisely that there are lots of in- or semi-competent translators, who need not just proofreaders, but teachers. The job of the translation proofreader - already an ambiguous mix of checking and real proofreading - becomes even more mixed up with this element of assessment.
On the rare occasions I accept proofreading jobs, I always have to go into agonising detail with the client: what do you really want? proofreading? revising? checking? assessing? It's a nightmare.
Of course, as a professional courtesy, it's always nice to be able to write something positive about one's colleagues, and I do, just as Robert suggested. But that's a human relationship thing, it's not (or it shouldn't be) part of the job.
[Edited at 2012-03-29 13:26 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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| I mostly work with Danish, but I do see some Swedish | Mar 29, 2012 |
I occasionally translate 'general' texts from Swedish. I turn down a lot more, and never proofread translations from Swedish, because I do not have the necessary qualifications. There are not too many good translators in the Scandinavian market, although there are lots of academics and others who write English and need it proofread. Agencies regularly get requests.
The standard ranges from excellent to awful, and some really do want to know for future reference what is OK, what is g... See more I occasionally translate 'general' texts from Swedish. I turn down a lot more, and never proofread translations from Swedish, because I do not have the necessary qualifications. There are not too many good translators in the Scandinavian market, although there are lots of academics and others who write English and need it proofread. Agencies regularly get requests.
The standard ranges from excellent to awful, and some really do want to know for future reference what is OK, what is good and what is not acceptable. When they say proofreading, they often mean at least light editing. They may even mark sections they are not satisfied with and ask if I can improve the formulation.
It is very difficult in practice to 'proofread' a translation without adjusting syntax and rephrasing at least a little, and indeed the 'proofreader' is expected to do so. Where the borderline goes between proofing and editing is impossible to say, so call it editing if you prefer. Is it proofreading or editing when you change the verb from plural to singular or the other way (a typical Scandinavian error)?
Or change the word order?
I HAVE done proofreading for a printer, where you really only corrected typos and formatting, and left everything else 'as copy', however weird it might sound. Where two languages are involved there is an extra dimension, and 'proofreading' in the strict printer's sense is too limited.
*****
It may be a cultural thing, but passing on a compliment or saying, 'thanks, I learnt something from your text' goes down quite well among Danish colleagues. They are often experts on the subject and terminology, and want a me to go through the text with native eyes. I always send a file with tracked changes and tell them to reject any they do not agree with, or call and ask. ▲ Collapse
| | | | LEXpert
United States
Local time: 08:36
Member (2008)
Croatian to English
+ ...
| Proofreading translations that are "too good" | Mar 29, 2012 |
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote: Robert Forstag wrote:
The good:
Proofreading is an opportunity to essentially convey the following message to agencies: "Look how many mistakes I've pointed out and corrected! If you had given the job to me in the first place, then you wouldn't have had these problems! I don't think there is particular pleasure in this kind of reports. When I proofread, I really enjoy it when I can say that the translator did a good job and I only made minor adjustments. It is the kind of proofreading I like. If I have to correct very many things and issue such a report, I pray to God I don't have to do it again. Capturing translation work by reporting the poor quality in others is not quite a sane way of doing business.
Of course it's a pleasure to proofread a well-crafted translation. Even if there are some QMs who seem to believe that there is some sort of inherent human "error quota" and grow suspicious if you don't meet it. I once had a beautiful 8k translation, which, as far as proofreading was concerned - needed no more than handful of extraneous spaces removed, returned to me for another look because "there had to be *something* wrong in a translation of that length". Of course, they never seem surprised when on a document from a different translator, I find 10 substantive errors within the first 500 words.
Robert Forstag wrote:
The good:
Proofreading is an opportunity to essentially convey the following message to agencies: "Look how many mistakes I've pointed out and corrected! If you had given the job to me in the first place, then you wouldn't have had these problems!
I try not to look at it that way, but it's hard to avoid doing so - where justified - in certain instances where you're asked to quote both translation and the proofreading on the same job, yet somehow always end up with the proofreading - for reasons that become painfully obvious when you receive the text to proofread.
[Edited at 2012-03-29 17:01 GMT]
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