Off topic: Has speaking with conviction become 'uncool'? Thread poster: Melanie Meyer
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Melanie Meyer 
United States
Local time: 00:04
Member (2010)
English to German
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This is a funny take on the annoying trend in spoken (American) English, especially amongst many members of 'generation selfie', to insert invisible question marks and meaningless filler words into virtually every sentence.
I was wondering whether this phenomenon is also affecting other English-speaking countries?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nvey4uiuLO4&app=desktop
| | | | Prima Vista
Russian Federation
Local time: 09:04
Russian to English
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| invisible question marks? how is that? | Sep 8, 2014 |
We had a similar trend in Russia two years ago, especially among young teenagers, but it seems to be restricted to that age group only
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:04
Member (2008)
Italian to English
It's not so much speaking, uh, without, you know, like, conviction so much as, like, like, opening your mouth to just like, make the sound of like talking without actually like having a plan of like what you're planning to say.
[Edited at 2014-09-08 13:07 GMT]
| | | | | Also in French | Sep 8, 2014 |
There is nothing I hate more than hearing the French "wesh" which has replaced the "oui" (yes) among teenagers (I dont mind the "ouai" used in informal language, though). In general, when I hear teengers speak, I lose faith in this generation.
Call me a purist, but Molière must be turning in his grave...
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Tom in London wrote:
It's not so much speaking, uh, without, you know, like, conviction so much as, like, like, opening your mouth to just like, make the sound of like talking without actually like having a plan of like what you're planning to say.
[Edited at 2014-09-08 13:07 GMT] +
Tom, you are hilarious!
| | | | Phil Hand
China
Local time: 12:04
Chinese to English
I like the poet, and I like the poem. Not sure about the performance. But being a translator, I always maintain at least two different viewpoints on everything, and my real opinion on this is quite the contrary.
If the younger generation should choose to speak in tones which are inclusive rather than assertive; open, rather than closed; exploratory, rather than definitive - then maybe it is because we are all of these things (erm, I'm not so young any more, but I certainly feel youn... See more I like the poet, and I like the poem. Not sure about the performance. But being a translator, I always maintain at least two different viewpoints on everything, and my real opinion on this is quite the contrary.
If the younger generation should choose to speak in tones which are inclusive rather than assertive; open, rather than closed; exploratory, rather than definitive - then maybe it is because we are all of these things (erm, I'm not so young any more, but I certainly feel young when I run into certain purveyors of this opinion). Maybe, just maybe, our lower rates of crime reflect our new inclusive friendliness. Maybe our greater experience of the diversity of world had taught us not to be too definitive. Perhaps the older generation is jealous of our unprecedented facility with the typed word. Perhaps the revolution of generation text is scary.
But I don't think that the internet generation has much to learn from those who are most interested in criticising their tone of voice. (I don't think that's what Mali is doing in the poem, but a lot of people who complain about AQI are.) ▲ Collapse
| | | | neilmac
Spain
Local time: 06:04
Spanish to English
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| Plus ca change | Sep 8, 2014 |
I'm afraid I tend to view articles like this lamenting the way people speak (like the "Marge Simpson" husky affectation described as vocal fry among other things) as mere curmudgery (that may be a made up word, which will probably annoy someone out there too). The perceived "culprits" are usually specific minorities (young people, cultural subgroups...) whose members are simply bolstering their sense of shared identity. To me it's tantamount to moaning about "hipsters" or beards or whatever... i... See more I'm afraid I tend to view articles like this lamenting the way people speak (like the "Marge Simpson" husky affectation described as vocal fry among other things) as mere curmudgery (that may be a made up word, which will probably annoy someone out there too). The perceived "culprits" are usually specific minorities (young people, cultural subgroups...) whose members are simply bolstering their sense of shared identity. To me it's tantamount to moaning about "hipsters" or beards or whatever... it all just seems such a waste of time. And I wonder how many of the (usually) young folk talking this way will continue to do into middle age and beyond...
NB: Some people even find ending a sentence with three dots an unpardonable offence... ▲ Collapse
| | | | Gerard de Noord
France
Local time: 06:04
Member (2003)
English to Dutch
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Grace Shalhoub wrote:
There is nothing I hate more than hearing the French "wesh" which has replaced the "oui" (yes) among teenagers (I dont mind the "ouai" used in informal language, though). In general, when I hear teengers speak, I lose faith in this generation.
Call me a purist, but Molière must be turning in his grave...
Enfin, bof j'sais pas trop.
Gérard
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cmmlws
India
Local time: 09:34
French to English
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| Has texting killed languages... Developing of languages with generations | Sep 9, 2014 |
http://www.ted.com/playlists/117/words_words_words
If you have a look at this...you might as well think that this is one of the ways languages are developing and just probably the youngsters are trying to put in the informal ways of talking to people to make them feel more comfortable and maybe just bring a personal touch into professionalism.
Which I think is ... See more http://www.ted.com/playlists/117/words_words_words
If you have a look at this...you might as well think that this is one of the ways languages are developing and just probably the youngsters are trying to put in the informal ways of talking to people to make them feel more comfortable and maybe just bring a personal touch into professionalism.
Which I think is great!
I don't think it is about whether it is uncool or not but probably about accepting and possible considering that this might just be happening more so often than not.
Of course it could also be at times that youngsters might be at a loss of words and just expect the other person to understand everything they are saying...
What matters probably is to just say that they are either comfortable or uncomfortable with it...and they might probably just start speaking the way the other feels comfortable about it.
Kinjal Vora ▲ Collapse
| | | | | It is back to the pre-print state of setting words to images... | Sep 9, 2014 |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTrNmVbU2k8
I was educated at the tag end of the hippie generation (and tagged too far behind to really catch them up).
But my school was a little old fashioned, so we were still taught by the age-old methods of 'chalk and talk', because in the post-war years those were the resources teachers had. The best of them used the old methods o... See more https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTrNmVbU2k8
I was educated at the tag end of the hippie generation (and tagged too far behind to really catch them up).
But my school was a little old fashioned, so we were still taught by the age-old methods of 'chalk and talk', because in the post-war years those were the resources teachers had. The best of them used the old methods of talk and empathy to impressive effect.
We really intensely READ the books we could get our hands on, which tended to be elderly classics – many of them are still around today. They were analysed, some ruined, but many actually enhanced, by the old chalk & talk method. ‘Cider with Rosie’ probably suffered on the ‘O’ Level syllabus, and it took me years to come to terms with ‘Kipps’ and ‘A Passage to India’. George Orwell and Aldous Huxley came over better. A whole generation grew up like that after the war, and we were extremely language conscious. Ours was the generation that loved Klingon and ‘The Hobbit’ as a BOOK. That actually knew the words of the Beatles’ songs and all the rest. Obla-di, obla-dah …
I actually failed my English Lit. 'O' level, but a teacher kindly consoled me: "Two kinds of students fail English Lit. 'O' Level. Those who haven't a clue, and those who make interesting 'A' Level students." I never looked back!
We were then encouraged to write our own stories, and I did. (Mercifully, I burnt most of them too.) We played with language in our own way, but had very different foundations to build on. The working-class authors - Richard Llewellyn, Dylan Thomas, Sid Chaplin, Alan Plater were popular. Some teachers turned up their noses, but others felt they were a much-needed breath of fresh air. We saw 'A day in the Death of Joe Egg' and 'Close the Coalhouse Door' on TV, and, if we were lucky, Laurence Olivier and Maggie Smith as Othello and Desdemona at the Old Vic. Yes, she was lovely as Desdemona, even better as Professor McGonagall!
I was omnivorous and mocked by my more discerning classmates, because I could go from Conan Doyle to Lorna Hill to the Brontës, Louisa M. Alcott to Gavin Maxwell ... whatever was on the shelves... those were the days! I had a soft spot for Samuel Johnson (hence my love of long sentences!) and even read Shakespeare and struggled through 'Paradise Lost' when I tired of the lightweight novelists.
It was serious when the ‘Desert Island Discs’ radio programme always ended with the Bible and Shakespeare already on the island, no doubt left there by Prospero. With only two TV channels and no Netflix, people knew the Bible and Shakespeare and could not imagine doing without them.
Today people are fed with images, and do not have to form their own from the printed word. More often they have to find the words for the images, and perhaps that is why some of them express themselves, like, hesitantly.
I don’t suppose we will ever go back to the VERBAL phase: before printing revolutionised civilisation, pictures and images were the natural way of seeing the world, and now with the Internet and Gigabytes flying at a keystroke, we are back to the natural state on a higher technical plane.
My generation still kinda’ struggles with it, but their grandchildren are, like, back in their element!
[Edited at 2014-09-09 08:14 GMT]
[Edited at 2014-09-09 08:20 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:04
Member (2008)
Italian to English
neilmac wrote:
Some people even find ending a sentence with three dots an unpardonable offence...
When are you going to finish that statement, Neil? I can hardly contain myself; those three dots promise something interesting to come !
[Edited at 2014-09-09 08:13 GMT]
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:04
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Actually it's not cool to say "cool"; and it certainly isn't hip to say "hip". This is not 1937 (when those terms were current). Let this lady tell you about like what it is, Man:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMB5CzzWXMQ
[Edited at 2014-09-09 08:28 GMT]
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JH Trads
United States
Local time: 00:04
Member (2007)
English to French
+ ...
| For avid readers only | Sep 9, 2014 |
In "I am Charlotte Simmons", Tom Wolfe provides an in-depth, ironic and hilarious analysis of what the word "cool" really means for 'college kids'. If you would like me to give you a hint, that's cool with me: it is about confidence
[Edited at 2014-09-09 21:20 GMT]
| | | | Phil Hand
China
Local time: 12:04
Chinese to English
| Images<>text | Sep 10, 2014 |
Christine Andersen wrote:
Today people are fed with images, and do not have to form their own from the printed word. More often they have to find the words for the images, and perhaps that is why some of them express themselves, like, hesitantly.
This might be right, and is quite an interesting way of thinking about it. I'd be inclined to say, though, that the forming of images from text is now shared in a way that it never was. You mentioned The Hobbit: we all form our own images of that, only Peter Jackson's images got put in the cinema. I also think of data visualisations and science illustrations.
So I think there is still plenty of image-forming going on. But you might be right that we're in a phase now where we go in the other direction more often. All the more work for good wordsmiths like us!
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