Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
vide de leur absence
English translation:
meaningless by their absence
Added to glossary by
narasimha (X)
Feb 27, 2013 08:31
11 yrs ago
1 viewer *
French term
vide de leur absence
French to English
Art/Literary
Poetry & Literature
Literature
Toute l'essence de leur quête gravite autour de la recherche d'un sens, à la fois signification et voie pour les guider vers le centre, vide de leur absence.
I could not make out what it means. Does it mean their absence is not felt? cCan you help me?
I could not make out what it means. Does it mean their absence is not felt? cCan you help me?
Proposed translations
(English)
Proposed translations
-1
35 mins
Selected
meaningless by their absence
Reading the text shown it refers to 'their' which I take to mean some people..who are looking for a meaning which can guide or orient them to some goal or centre. The centre (whatever it is, material, spiritual, or other) is meanwhile empty until they can reach it (by their absence). So in attaining it they bring to the centre the meaning by which they arrived, thereby filling the void. That at least is my interpretation, it may not by any means be the correct one.
Peer comment(s):
disagree |
Atelier de Mots
: I read this solution as the opposite of what the poet intends--a fullness in which all absence disappears.
6 hrs
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks for your help"
1 hr
emptied of their insignificance
Gramatically, as presented in my Petit Robert, the adjectival "vide de" means "qui ne contient pas." In this poetic use of the adjective, there is a twist clarified by John Holland's identification of the poem. If something is EMPTY of ABSENCE, it is logically FULL ... which is quite the opposite of "meaningless," as Laurence Fogarty suggests. My proposed translation is a bit less abstract than a literal "emptied of their absence" would be, though I think it might work well as it plays against the use of "significance" in the thought captured by these lines.
2 hrs
hollow without them
that is/seems hollow without them
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Atelier de Mots
: Nice solution... but wanders away from the poet a bit.
4 hrs
|
-2
2 hrs
Disapppears in their absence
I'd translate in this way as an ameteur poet!
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Victoria Britten
: Can you give the whole sentence? This doesn't work grammatically as a translation for the phrase given
9 mins
|
disagree |
Kim Metzger
: http://aflit.arts.uwa.edu.au/Bassole5.html
2 hrs
|
disagree |
Cetacea
: It's not about disappearance.
5 hrs
|
3 hrs
escaping their own absence
It sounds like this sentence is expressing the following idea -
The 'centre' is the goal, in that is is the end of the search for meaning, and the search for meaning arises from the emptiness, or absence, inside oneself. When the goal is achieved, and meaning is found, this 'absence' disappears, just as when one looks for something and finds it, one stops looking for it since its 'absence' has disappeared.
The 'centre' is the goal, in that is is the end of the search for meaning, and the search for meaning arises from the emptiness, or absence, inside oneself. When the goal is achieved, and meaning is found, this 'absence' disappears, just as when one looks for something and finds it, one stops looking for it since its 'absence' has disappeared.
+4
2 hrs
emptied by their absence
It seems to me that there is paradox in the poem. The center is both empty and full, simultaneously. The center is also an absence, yet filled with traces of the past.
The literal meaning of the last part of the commentary on the poem, "vide de leur absence," would be something like "emptied of or by their absence" or "devoid of their absence." I take "their" to refer to women, i.e., to those engaged in this search for meaning, and I take the phrase "vide de leur absence" as an adjective modifying "center."
Here is an attempt at a translation that tries to include a paradoxical element:
"The whole essence of their quest gravitates around the search for meaning, which is a search for signification and also for a path that will lead them to the center [that is] emptied by their absence."
That translation seems to imply that their eventual presence will fill the center (even if it is a fullness that also is an absence), which seems to correspond to the overall reading of the poem in the commentary,
As an alternative, that adds a bit of interpretation, maybe "...the empty center, filled with their absence" would be possible. I think that could correspond a bit more to the meaning of the stanza of the poem, but I'm not so sure it accurately represents the commentary (which I have only read through superficially).
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Note added at 4 hrs (2013-02-27 12:57:38 GMT)
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@ormiston
I definitely agree that "sens" also implies "direction." I was hoping to express that element in the second part of the sentence's elaboration on "sens" ("path that will lead them to").
I also wanted to preserve the possible allusion to "sens" vs. "signification" ("meaning" vs "signification") that is important in some kinds of literary criticism, such as psychoanalytic criticism. I don't think it's a complete stretch to hear that kind of theoretical evocation given that the next paragraph in the commentary talks about alienation and trauma, which also figure in that approach:
"L'expérience de l'aliénation est douloureuse et traumatisante." (at http://aflit.arts.uwa.edu.au/Bassole5.html ).
I do like your suggestion to add "left or rendered."
The literal meaning of the last part of the commentary on the poem, "vide de leur absence," would be something like "emptied of or by their absence" or "devoid of their absence." I take "their" to refer to women, i.e., to those engaged in this search for meaning, and I take the phrase "vide de leur absence" as an adjective modifying "center."
Here is an attempt at a translation that tries to include a paradoxical element:
"The whole essence of their quest gravitates around the search for meaning, which is a search for signification and also for a path that will lead them to the center [that is] emptied by their absence."
That translation seems to imply that their eventual presence will fill the center (even if it is a fullness that also is an absence), which seems to correspond to the overall reading of the poem in the commentary,
As an alternative, that adds a bit of interpretation, maybe "...the empty center, filled with their absence" would be possible. I think that could correspond a bit more to the meaning of the stanza of the poem, but I'm not so sure it accurately represents the commentary (which I have only read through superficially).
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Note added at 4 hrs (2013-02-27 12:57:38 GMT)
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@ormiston
I definitely agree that "sens" also implies "direction." I was hoping to express that element in the second part of the sentence's elaboration on "sens" ("path that will lead them to").
I also wanted to preserve the possible allusion to "sens" vs. "signification" ("meaning" vs "signification") that is important in some kinds of literary criticism, such as psychoanalytic criticism. I don't think it's a complete stretch to hear that kind of theoretical evocation given that the next paragraph in the commentary talks about alienation and trauma, which also figure in that approach:
"L'expérience de l'aliénation est douloureuse et traumatisante." (at http://aflit.arts.uwa.edu.au/Bassole5.html ).
I do like your suggestion to add "left or rendered."
Peer comment(s):
agree |
ormiston
: agree with your reading of it. I would suggest that 'sens' here also means 'direction'.what about 'left or rendered' empty to reflect the vacuum?
1 hr
|
Thanks, ormiston. Please also see my note above.
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agree |
Frank Foley
: But surely "empty in (or by)", not "emptied by", since they are striving towards it, having not had the opportunity of previously "emptying" it by their departure? (I can't believe I'm seriously discussing such an empty (or full!) poem.) :-)
2 hrs
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Thanks, Frank. It does seem contradictory... In the end, I suppose we'd need to read the entire poem and all of the commentary essay to try to see further.
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|
agree |
Atelier de Mots
: I described the crux of the poem as a "twist." Your "paradox" is better, and I can support sticking to the literal translation of "absence."
4 hrs
|
Thank you. I'm thinking that it is important to use "absence" given that it appears in the poem and in the commentary.
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agree |
Cetacea
5 hrs
|
Thank you, Cetacea
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Reference comments
42 mins
Reference:
Context - it's a commentary on the poem "Labyrinthe" by Tanella Boni
"Les hommes ayant leur Histoire, les femmes se créent aussi leur Planète. Entre ces deux espaces, se dresse une distance telle que seule la sérénité d'une identité retrouvée pourra combler; voilà pourquoi leur quête se révèle si vitale. Elles ont besoin de se retrouver, de se définir par rapport à elles-mêmes, de savoir enfin qui elles sont avant de pouvoir fournir cette énergie capable de réunir ces deux mondes opposés. Pour cela, il leur faut déterminer le centre autour duquel elles vont orienter leur vie :
Recherche d'un sens
un centre
une absence
Le vide est là
Le plein aussi
jauni
pétri
vieilli
Traces du temps sans temps
mondes indéfinis
surgis
D'un chaos initial
ô femmes! (Labyrinthe, p. 28)
Toute l'essence de leur quête gravite autour de la recherche d'un sens, à la fois signification et voie pour les guider vers le centre, vide de leur absence."
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Note added at 43 mins (2013-02-27 09:15:03 GMT)
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Note that some of the lines of the poem are supposed to be indented.
Recherche d'un sens
un centre
une absence
Le vide est là
Le plein aussi
jauni
pétri
vieilli
Traces du temps sans temps
mondes indéfinis
surgis
D'un chaos initial
ô femmes! (Labyrinthe, p. 28)
Toute l'essence de leur quête gravite autour de la recherche d'un sens, à la fois signification et voie pour les guider vers le centre, vide de leur absence."
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Note added at 43 mins (2013-02-27 09:15:03 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Note that some of the lines of the poem are supposed to be indented.
Reference:
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree |
writeaway
: asker should really post this url for all his questions. it's a waste of time to attempt to answer without seeing the actual context
1 hr
|
Agreed, and thanks!
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agree |
Victoria Britten
: Thanks for taking the time to do this.
1 hr
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Thanks, Victoria
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Discussion
"gravite autour" means they are turning around the center that they are aiming at, because this is where they will eventually find themselves
If one has to find himself later at the center around which he gravitates, then he can only see that he is not there yet, hence the concept of "absence"
Once they have found their way to the center, they will be "present" in this center
Please go through the reference comments provided by John Holland and you will know what it means!