| A témához tartozó oldalak: [1 2 3] > | Should KudoZ asking limits be reduced? Téma indítója: XXXphxxx (X)
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XXXphxxx (X) 
Egyesült Királyság
Local time: 07:01
portugál - angol
+ ...
This thread is an off-shoot of this one: http://www.proz.com/forum/kudoz/224848-what_is_the_highest_number_of_kudoz_questions_asked_by_a_single_individual.html
As a reminder, the current limits are:
Your daily limit (measured over a sliding 24-hr period) depends on your membership level. If you are not registered with ProZ.com, you can ask one (1) question per day. If you are registered but not member, you can ask five (5). If you are member, you can ask fifteen (15). There are also weekly limits of 20 questions for registered non-members and 60 questions for members. If you have ten (10) questions that have received valid answers and have been open for more than a week, you will not be allowed to ask further questions. Please grade and close these questions to continue asking.
There are a significant number of us who see that the system is being abused. Users of ProZ and at least one other site are being used to prop up translators who are taking on work beyond their areas of expertise or linguistic skills, producing low quality translations and contributing to a reduction in rates – the human Google Translators of our profession. The site’s response is to filter the offending parties. Does anyone feel that the asking limits should not reduced and, if not, why not?
| | | | | Translating beyond the areas of expertise | Aug 7, 2012 |
I've only asked one KudoZ question during my entire ProZ presence and answered about 700, but I noticed that every now and then, well-established and reputed colleagues ask questions obviously beyond their areas of expertise. This happens because sometimes their regular customers have smaller jobs in those fields and would like them to do those jobs. I see nothing wrong in asking for help in such cases.
Are there really no constructive topics we can discuss but flagellating others for what... See more I've only asked one KudoZ question during my entire ProZ presence and answered about 700, but I noticed that every now and then, well-established and reputed colleagues ask questions obviously beyond their areas of expertise. This happens because sometimes their regular customers have smaller jobs in those fields and would like them to do those jobs. I see nothing wrong in asking for help in such cases.
Are there really no constructive topics we can discuss but flagellating others for what they do wrong?
I think a good translator working in his/her area of expertise doesn't need more than 1 question per week (not even that), but why is it my problem that some people need more help than others? ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Why not make this a rule again and enforce it | Aug 7, 2012 |
2.1 (Guideline): "Help" KudoZ should be used for requesting terms help only after other resources have been exhausted. Resources available include the KudoZ archives (KudoZ > ProZ.com Term Search from the main menu), dictionaries, search engines, etc. If translations are found elsewhere and the decision to post a KudoZ question is made nevertheless, information found elsewhere should be included, along with an explanation of what further information is sought.
... See more 2.1 (Guideline): "Help" KudoZ should be used for requesting terms help only after other resources have been exhausted. Resources available include the KudoZ archives (KudoZ > ProZ.com Term Search from the main menu), dictionaries, search engines, etc. If translations are found elsewhere and the decision to post a KudoZ question is made nevertheless, information found elsewhere should be included, along with an explanation of what further information is sought.
If this now toothless guideline became a real rule (again) and the moderators who police the forums were instructed to enforce it, there would automatically be fewer questions asked imo. This would more or less oblige Askers to do some of their own research and who knows, they may even stumble upon the answer themselves.
Or it should no longer be a punishable offence if colleagues post this 'guideline', without additional comments, to remind Askers of their obligations when they ask others for help. It is not 'questioning' anyone's right to post a question, just reminding them that they also have to do their part to help those who want to help. It would also eliminate the need for post-answering comments from Askers like 'that's what I found but it doesn't work' or 'that's what I thought it was', etc. ▲ Collapse
| | | | psicutrinius
Spanyolország
Local time: 08:01
Tag (2008 óta)
spanyol - angol
+ ...
| Yes, they should be reduced...or... | Aug 7, 2012 |
...the updated record of questions (at least) or questions/answers should appear in the profile, prominently (as it is now) and as a link to questions (again, as it is now) so that the answerer (or the outsourcer) can see it, and it should be permanently there, without the possibility of hiding it.
Any outsourcer looking at a profile and seeing an inordinate number of questions asked should frown mightily and think twice -which would deter drastically, and at once all abuse (and eve... See more ...the updated record of questions (at least) or questions/answers should appear in the profile, prominently (as it is now) and as a link to questions (again, as it is now) so that the answerer (or the outsourcer) can see it, and it should be permanently there, without the possibility of hiding it.
Any outsourcer looking at a profile and seeing an inordinate number of questions asked should frown mightily and think twice -which would deter drastically, and at once all abuse (and everyone of them), and which can be accomplished at a snap, without cost and (as far as I know) without "touching" any rule. ▲ Collapse
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| Visibility on the profile page is optional | Aug 7, 2012 |
psicutrinius wrote:
...the updated record of questions (at least) or questions/answers should appear in the profile, prominently (as it is now) and as a link to questions (again, as it is now) so that the answerer (or the outsourcer) can see it, and it should be permanently there, without the possibility of hiding it.
Any outsourcer looking at a profile and seeing an inordinate number of questions asked should frown mightily and think twice -which would deter drastically, and at once all abuse (and everyone of them), and which can be accomplished at a snap, without cost and (as far as I know) without "touching" any rule.
It's up to the individual to show or hide their Kudoz activity. Not surprisingly I suppose, there are those who ask a lot but choose not to show that on their profile page.
| | | | | You can't regulate your way out of abuse | Aug 7, 2012 |
This has been discussed at length, and even more in the moderators' forums, which I had the privilege of seeing for a few years. The present limits were set after very careful consideration and discussion by MANY KudoZ users.
Inevitably the present rules are a compromise, because it is impossible to reach agreement among so many. But the main conclusion was that you can't stop abuse without hindering those who use KudoZ properly and for all the right reasons.
The limits... See more This has been discussed at length, and even more in the moderators' forums, which I had the privilege of seeing for a few years. The present limits were set after very careful consideration and discussion by MANY KudoZ users.
Inevitably the present rules are a compromise, because it is impossible to reach agreement among so many. But the main conclusion was that you can't stop abuse without hindering those who use KudoZ properly and for all the right reasons.
The limits were deliberately set high for several reasons.
Some people need to ask clusters of questions within short periods, for instance if they prefer to gather problem terms at the end of a long text and ask about them together. That way, if they find their own solutions along the way, they need not post them as KudoZ questions. But then deadlines are often approaching, and they cannot wait several days for an answer.
Although only one term is allowed per question, asking about related terms in a sequence of questions is useful to both askers and answerers.
There are lots of reasons why asking several questions within a day or a week would NOT amount to abuse.
Many non-subscribing users make extremely valuable contributions to KudoZ, while paid membership is no guarantee against abuse of the system.
The limits reduce constant over-use, but in purely practical terms it is not possible to construct a system that can recognise abusers and filter them out.
The only workable solution is to sift abusers individually, on the grounds that they infringe other rules. Moderators can and do block individuals from KudoZ, and anyone is welcome to report abuse by sending a support ticket or contacting a moderator.
That is my personal experience of KudoZ. Agreed, the system is not foolproof, but IMHO the short answer to the question is NO. ▲ Collapse
| | | | psicutrinius
Spanyolország
Local time: 08:01
Tag (2008 óta)
spanyol - angol
+ ...
I agree that the numbers of questions NOT be reduced after seeing your post, and I thus stand corrected from what I said two posts earlier.
But I of course maintain the remainder of the post.
(Added, 12:10 CEST):
And, by the way, thanks a lot. I would love to see former (or present) moderators (though I gather these latter should -if it is not prohibited expressly to them, which I do not see a valid reason for, but which might happen nevertheless) sh... See more I agree that the numbers of questions NOT be reduced after seeing your post, and I thus stand corrected from what I said two posts earlier.
But I of course maintain the remainder of the post.
(Added, 12:10 CEST):
And, by the way, thanks a lot. I would love to see former (or present) moderators (though I gather these latter should -if it is not prohibited expressly to them, which I do not see a valid reason for, but which might happen nevertheless) sharing here and explaining their experiences as well as both what can NOT be done and what CAN. This is the sort of insider expertise we all lack, and which is nevertheless necessary
[Edited at 2012-08-07 10:16 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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One person should not be able to make more questions than the number of questions answered. This would ensure everybody contributed to the community effort and that abuse disappeared in one go.
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a user who closes her profile and opens a new one using another name?
This just happened in one of my language pairs.
| | | | Steffen Walter
Németország
Local time: 08:01
Tag (2002 óta)
angol - német
+ ...
| Has been reversed | Aug 7, 2012 |
Gudrun Wolfrath wrote:
a user who closes her profile and opens a new one using another name?
This just happened in one of my language pairs.
This has been reversed (by ProZ.com?) as far as I know. This user is again using her old profile (the new profile has been deleted).
| | | | XXXphxxx (X)
Egyesült Királyság
Local time: 07:01
portugál - angol
+ ...
TÉMAINDÍTÓ | I agree that ratio is important, but... | Aug 7, 2012 |
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
One person should not be able to make more questions than the number of questions answered. This would ensure everybody contributed to the community effort and that abuse disappeared in one go.
I fear it would just encourage lots of stupid answers just for the sake of answering questions.
I might add that I hardly ever go near KudoZ because I find it utterly depressing. On the odd occasion when I do ask a question (26 questions since 2004) I try to ensure that my ratio of answers remains at least three times that of my questions as a way of sowing more than I reap. I'm not sure everyone has the same community spirit though. Well, clearly not!
| | | | XXXphxxx (X)
Egyesült Királyság
Local time: 07:01
portugál - angol
+ ...
TÉMAINDÍTÓ | Is it the default setting? | Aug 7, 2012 |
writeaway wrote:
It's up to the individual to show or hide their Kudoz activity. Not surprisingly I suppose, there are those who ask a lot but choose not to show that on their profile page.
I've just noticed that the visibility on mine was toggled to 'off' - have just rectified it. Practise what you preach and all that...
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Gudrun Wolfrath wrote:
a user who closes her profile and opens a new one using another name?
This just happened in one of my language pairs.
With a little help from technology (e. g. proxy server, I think) you can create as many profiles as you like in order to ask questions, support your own answers and/or close them.
It's not possible to detect this kind of fraud with common tools.
But, sorry - we're professionals - I forgot  . However, I sometimes think ....
Susanne
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Lisa Simpson, MCIL wrote:
I fear it would just encourage lots of stupid answers just for the sake of answering questions.
Well, lots of answers are already stupid and are only aimed to get points by sheer chance (or by the ignorance of askers), so things would not change much, would they?
| | | | | With Christine | Aug 7, 2012 |
I second Christine's thoughs: making new rules to fight abuse is counterproductive at the very least. Furthermore, KudoZ is a voluntary mutual help service, and as such, should be as non-disciriminatory as possible. On the other hand, maybe it's not true of all language pairs, but I do often notice that questions betraying asker's total cluelessness are simply left unanswered (and sometimes even commented to that effect).
Bottom line: the system is quite good as it is.
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