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Glossary entry

English term or phrase:

make a braver show

English answer:

Put on an act or pretend (conceal true feelings)

Added to glossary by Yvonne Gallagher
Sep 26, 2019 22:47
4 yrs ago
3 viewers *
English term

make a braver show

English Art/Literary Poetry & Literature
"Well, even so, none made a braver show than she."

Maids say this about an older lady, a countess, who has just returned home from a social outing. The setting is early 19th century Russia.

What exactly does "made a braver show" mean?

Thank you for your help!
Responses
4 Put on an act or pretend
4 +1 she was the belle of the ball
5 courageous shoe
4 Make a greater effort
4 pretended to be unaffected
4 to put on a brave face
References
был кто лучше там собою
Change log

Oct 3, 2019 21:29: Yvonne Gallagher Created KOG entry

Discussion

David Moore (X) Sep 27, 2019:
@Mikhail: ALL the offerings bar David's have a negative implication, as does the original translation. If the Russian really means what you understand, I would either use David's idea, or perhaps "she outshone all the other guests".
Mark Robertson Sep 27, 2019:
I think putting on a brave show can involve a contrast between a subdued inner mood and an expansive outer display. The brave show is put on despite or notwithstanding that the inner mood. The brave show does not reveal, it conceals.
B D Finch Sep 27, 2019:
Verb I think there is a difference between making a brave show and putting on a brave show. The former implies both effort and success, while the latter is about making an effort, in spite of either having already failed or being doomed to failure.
philgoddard Sep 27, 2019:
The translator is correct in my opinion. See definitions 2 and 3 here:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/brave
I think it's a good translation, too - it fits the tone of the text, and the historical era.
Yvonne Gallagher Sep 27, 2019:
' Mikhail Glad to have helped
Mikhail Kropotov (asker) Sep 27, 2019:
Thank you so much for your help!

I have received all the help I needed and have graded Yvonne's answer, but apparently the site will not show this until 24 hours elapse since the question was posted.
Yvonne Gallagher Sep 27, 2019:
Yes, Mark has given you a good ref for the actual meaning of "put on a show" in English which confirm what I have already said. There is always some form of act involved, and, in this case of a "brave" show" the lady has had to work hard at putting on the act. This is a "noble act" i.e she is being selfless and to be admired for doing so whether to be diplomatic or just to keep the peace. BUT obviously, that does not fit with the meaning of the source text you have given, at all.
I gave you a couple of ways of phrasing that last night and I thought of another "she was the fairest of them all" OR "none was more fair than her" in terms of writing THIS meaning (that YOU see in the source text) in "older" style (like my other suggestions)
Mark Robertson Sep 27, 2019:
To put on a show This may help

https://translate.enacademic.com/to put on a brave show/xx/x...
Yvonne Gallagher Sep 27, 2019:
Sorry for typos. (Writing on phone in hotel room.) This would be a third-party approving view of her but it needs to match the source text
Yvonne Gallagher Sep 27, 2019:
Perhaps: there was none (no one) could match her in beauty? Or: her beauty had no equal (in the assembled gathering)
Yvonne Gallagher Sep 27, 2019:
Short answer...no, doesn't look right
Mikhail Kropotov (asker) Sep 26, 2019:
Thank you for explaining the meaning, Yvonne!
I'm checking someone else's English translation for accuracy. The Russian source literally means, "None there was as good-looking as she."
Do you think "None made a braver show than she." is accurate?
Tina Vonhof (X) Sep 26, 2019:
Can you give us the previous sentence as well? Or a couple?

Responses

35 mins
Selected

Put on an act or pretend

Hard to be exact without knowing more of the context but in s social gathering it usually means that someone pretends to like or no oapprove of somoeone or something even when the opposite is true

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Note added at 37 mins (2019-09-26 23:25:34 GMT)
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SO, they are putting on a show or trying really hard to hide their dislike or disapproval



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Note added at 6 days (2019-10-03 14:26:55 GMT) Post-grading
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Glad to have helped and happy you weren't led astray by some of the "fake news"

For the record, and without typos now I'm finally home again, there is no way that the expression "make a brave show" could mean that she is the most beautiful here. So, if the latter is what the Russian means, this expression is incorrectly used.

Peer comment(s):
agree AJ Ablooglu : In the above sentence “even so” makes me wonder if something went wrong at the social outing and this lady pretended to be unaffected from it.
7 hrs
Thank you. yes, that is also possible. We don't have enough context to know Why she is putting on a show but anyway, the source text does not mean this.//typo in my first line as it should be "pretend to like and not disapprove of..."
disagree philgoddard : No, see my discussion note.//Mikhail says the Russian means she was the most beautiful woman there. I'm saying it has been correctly translated.
9 hrs
no, you (and David) are absolutely wrong//I think if Mikhail , a native Russian, gives the meaning of the source text as something else, we should accept that
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you so much for your help"
1 hr

Make a greater effort

No one made a greater effort (to appear to be stronger, more unconcerned, more confident, etc.) than she did.

More context would surely help. My impression is that the maids are speaking of the countess with admiration. Perhaps she held her head high, displaying dignity despite difficult circumstances.

Yes, it's an act, a pretense, but the phrase is usually used sympathetically. That's why the maids would use the word "brave."
Peer comment(s):
agree Aline Amorim
33 mins
Thank you, Aline.
neutral Yvonne Gallagher : make a greater effort at what exactly? Putting on a show, as I said? "brave" means it was difficult for her to put on this show and of course it's usually said admiringly. Although, it turns out the source text doesn't say this after all!
7 hrs
I don't know what, exactly, because we don't have enough context.
disagree philgoddard : No, see my discussion note.
9 hrs
Something went wrong...
+1
3 hrs

she was the belle of the ball

Noun. belle of the ball (plural belles of the ball) The woman who is the most beautiful or attractive at a dance or similar function.

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Note added at 3 hrs (2019-09-27 01:53:26 GMT)
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given your explanation of the source text

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Note added at 3 hrs (2019-09-27 01:54:28 GMT)
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as you see, this expression doesn't only refer to dances or balls

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Note added at 5 hrs (2019-09-27 03:49:02 GMT)
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I would confirm that in this content and time period it means that the person in question came off best in terms of appearance and attractiveness

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Note added at 5 hrs (2019-09-27 03:52:39 GMT)
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what's the source language?

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Note added at 5 hrs (2019-09-27 03:56:18 GMT)
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the belle of the ball means the lady involved won the show in terms of being the one they all looked at NOT necessarily the most attractive or beautiful
Note from asker:
Hi David, I'm not translating from the Russian but only checking someone else's translation for accuracy. Can you please confirm that "made a braver show" does NOT mean "the most attractive"?
Peer comment(s):
disagree Yvonne Gallagher : David this expression does NOT mean this at all. You are giving a headline answer for what Mikhail thinks the ST SHOULD BE and your last notes are really contradictory
5 hrs
agree philgoddard : Yes, you're quite right: brave doesn't mean courageous. As my discussion note shows, it means striking or dazzling. I disagree with your last comment, though.
7 hrs
agree Erzsébet Czopyk : "about an older lady, a countess" the sentence itself contains an inner contrast between her age and being a belle of the event, this is what means something, IMHO
2 days 4 hrs
Something went wrong...
8 hrs

pretended to be unaffected

In the above sentence “even so” makes me wonder if something went wrong at the social outing and this lady pretended to be unaffected from it.
I sincerely doubt that being bell of the ball has anything to do with it.
Peer comment(s):
agree Yvonne Gallagher : yes, this is also on the right lines of what this expression actually means
1 hr
thank you
disagree philgoddard : See my discussion note.
2 hrs
Something went wrong...
6 hrs

courageous shoe

Courage and bravery have a lot in common, so courageous could mean brave.

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Note added at 8 hrs (2019-09-27 07:37:43 GMT)
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It is show and not shoe,
Peer comment(s):
neutral Ian Davies : I think you mean 'show' not 'shoe'!
7 hrs
Something went wrong...
11 hrs

to put on a brave face

This could refer to self-possession; pulling yourself together (recovering control of your emotions), putting on a brave face (masking your discomfort) and going on to do whatever you need to do despite unfavorable circumstances.
Note from asker:
Thank you for your help, Katya!
Peer comment(s):
neutral Tony M : Although that would be logical and reflect the usual meaning of this expression, it seems at odds with Asker's explanation of the apparent intended meaning here.
3 hrs
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

2 days 19 hrs
Reference:

был кто лучше там собою

Это из либретто к опере "Пиковая дама".

Строка "Well, even so, none made a braver show than she."
соответствует строке на русском "Ну, и что же, Был кто лучше там собою?"

Либретто на английском:
https://www.opera-arias.com/tchaikovsky/the-queen-of-spades/...

Либретто на русском:
http://lukianpovorotov.narod.ru/Folder_SongBook/CL/Pikovaya_...
извините за простоту и спасибо за отзів на форуме)
Note from asker:
This is precisely the translation I am checking the accuracy of.
Something went wrong...
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