Glossary entry

Spanish term or phrase:

arcóntico

English translation:

fundamental

Added to glossary by Laura Molinari
Feb 9, 2016 19:00
8 yrs ago
2 viewers *
Spanish term

arcóntico

Spanish to English Law/Patents Law (general)
Although my document is legal, this term isn't necessary but since I don't really know what it means, I can't classify it any better!

Como es evidente, el punto *arcóntico* del thema decidendum radicó en la pretensión autónoma, relativa a la naturaleza jurídica del denominado Proposal Agreement, es decir, si se trató de una modificación al contrato de fecha 20 de noviembre de 2006, y por tánto extendió el plazo de vigencia de este último hasta el 20 de diciembre de 2011.

I suspect it's something along the lines of the 'point of contention/dispute' but I cannot even find a definition of this likely recently invented word anywhere (from Peru)

Discussion

Helena Chavarria Feb 9, 2016:
@Allegro There isn't enough room in the comment box, so I'll carry on writing here.

Fundamental = more ​important than anything ​else:

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/fundament...

Ok, I agree 'fundamental' is not quite the same as 'important' but I was concentrating on 'ruling', not on the the text as a whole.

Proposed translations

+6
33 mins
Selected

primordial / fundamental

I have some sympathy with the "garbage in, garbage out" approach to translation. Since "punto arcóntico" is more or less nonsense, it would serve the author right to translate it by the equally nonsensical expression "archontic point". But tempting though it may be, I really don't think we can do it.

That's not to say that "archontic" is meaningless in itself, though its meaning is somewhat elusive. But it certain has nothing to do with this context. "Archontic" really means "relating to the archons", magistrates in ancient Athens. But it's been hijacked by various obscurantist tendencies. On the one hand, in Gnostic thinking archons are alien beings that penetrate the human mind (or something like that). And Derrida (bless him) adopted the word, relating it to the idea of the archive; from this we get to the idea of an "archontic" text, which is really another way of saying an intertext (I think). Here's more info. if required;
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vida_alien/alien_archons02...
https://books.google.es/books?id=UgZsi_DOKoQC&pg=PA64&lpg=PA...

But none of this has anything obvious to do with our context. As far as I can see, "punto arcóntico" is an expression originating in Argentina, and the idea seems to be that "arcóntico" is related to "origin" (arkhe in Greek). It may very well come from Derrida (after all, who really understands what Derrida was on about)?

"En parte, la naturaleza de este proceso dependerá del balance de fuerzas que le den origen, de lo que los grupos en contienda o los responsables estén dispuestos a admitir. Es, en otras palabras, un instante arcóntico, en la acepción de Derrida, un instante que establece el origen, un arkhé (Derrida, 1995), la constitución de un archivo."
http://biblioteca.clacso.edu.ar/clacso/becas/20150131091650/...

So really I think what they mean is a point that is at the origin of the question. So really it amounts to nothing more than a pretentious and fancy way of saying "fundamental" or "primordial".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 49 mins (2016-02-09 19:49:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

As far as I can judge this is what people mean by the term when they use it in this kind of context. This is on judicial reform:

"La cuestión demandará entre diez y quince años de trabajo arduo y perseverante, para recobrar los niveles adecuados y contribuir al restablecimiento de la seguridad jurídica, que es el punto arcóntico de la cuestión."
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/507835-hay-que-definir-las-politi...

This one's about finance and credit (it's by a university law professor, who I suppose is professionally obliged to sound clever):
"Tal ausencia de transparencia existe y erosiona la confianza, tema arcóntico en el otorgamiento de crédito."
http://www.catedra-piaggi.com.ar/biblio/biblio22.html

The very same learned law professor, this time talking about arbitration:
"Adicionalmente señalan la conveniencia de pactar el grado de confidencialidad –aspecto arcóntico del arbitraje– que las partes y los árbitros deberán guardar"
http://dspace.uces.edu.ar:8180/xmlui/bitstream/handle/123456...

But "archontic" doesn't seem to have crept into English legal language in the same way, for which I suppose we should be grateful.
Peer comment(s):

agree neilmac : The "thema decidendum" part is quite juicy too...
18 mins
Yeah, sorry. This kind of thing gets my goat, I confess ;) // Nice, isn't it? The term "pretentious tw*t" springs to mind.
agree AllegroTrans : fundamental
1 hr
Thanks, AT. I'd settle for that.
agree Robert Forstag
3 hrs
Thank you, Robert
agree philgoddard : "Who really understands what Derrida was about" indeed. That's why I suggested a plain-English alternative to "signified" the other day :-)
4 hrs
Fair comment, Phil :) But there are limits, and "archontic" is way beyond them. Thanks!
agree acetran
8 hrs
Thanks, acetran :)
agree Thomas Walker : Lawyer-talk is bad enough when couched in legal terminology in plain Spanish or English; throw in this extra BS, & it's just unbearable.
2 days 1 hr
It certainly is! Thanks, Tom :)
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Gracias!"
+1
12 mins

Archontic

Comes from the Archons (arconte) - magistrates who ruled ancient Athens
http://findwords.info/term/archontic

I would just use Archontic.
Peer comment(s):

agree neilmac : So much nicer with the "h"... :)
38 mins
neutral AllegroTrans : this word is simply too obscure
1 hr
Something went wrong...
12 mins

archontic

The Archontics, or Archontici, were a Gnostic sect that existed in Palestine and Armenia, who arose towards the close of the 2nd century CE. They were thus called from the Greek word ἄρχοντες, "principalities", or "rulers", by reason that they held the world to have been created and ruled by malevolent Archons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archontics

'The concept of the archive shelters in itself, of course, this memory of the name arkhe . But it also shelters itself from this memory which it shelters [...] In a way, the term indeed refers, as one would correctly believe, to the arkhe in the physical, historical, or ontological sense, which is to say to the originary, the first, the principal, the primitive, in short to the commencement. But even more, and even earlier, "archive" refers to the arkhe in the nomological sense, to the arkhe of the commandment.' (Derrida AF: 2)

http://http-server.carleton.ca/~mflynnbu/archives/archives.h...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 mins (2016-02-09 19:15:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=kv7oG2QjRd4C&pg=PA81&lpg...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 30 mins (2016-02-09 19:30:40 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I'm still trying to understand what the 'archontic principle' is but I've just discovered that 'archive' also comes from the Greek word 'arkheion'.

Archives are used to store and preserve public documents and records. The word archive derives from the Greek arkheion. Jacques Derrida defines arkheion as "initially a house, a domicile, an address, the residence of the superior magistrates, the archontes (…) The citizens who thus held and signified political power were considered to possess the right to make or to represent the law. On account of their publicly recognized authority, it is at their home, in that place which is their house (private house, family house, or employee’s house), that documents are filed."* The archontes are the keepers and guardians of the depot and … "they have the power to interpret the archives."** At the archive, place and law, topology and nomology intersect. Furthermore Derrida elaborates, the archive serves as a place of consignation, of gathering. "By consignation, we do not only mean, in the ordinary sense of the word, the act of assigning residence or of entrusting so as to put into reserve (to consign, to deposit), in a place and on a substrate, but here the act of consigning through gathering together signs. (…) The archontic principle of the archive is also a principle of consignation, that is, of gathering together. ***

http://www.szuper.org/a-neu/texte/schuetz.html

I'm guessing but I understand 'archonic point' to mean 'ruling point', i.e. the most important point.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 31 mins (2016-02-09 19:31:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry, I forgot the 't' - 'archonTic'.
Peer comment(s):

neutral AllegroTrans : this word is simply too obscure
1 hr
Hi! Yes, I know. I was the first person to suggest a translation but because we would obviously never use the term in English I continued researching and ended my answer by suggesting 'the most important point'. Thank you for your opinion :-)
Something went wrong...
2 hrs

magisterially over-arching

Thanks to everyone else for doing the spadework.

Let us keep the top one of 9 ancient Greek magistrates and retain the arc as an arch.
Example sentence:

(Aniquities) Uno de los magistrados en la antigua Atenas, sobre todo, por la preeminencia, el primero de los nueve magistrados principales. - Arcóntico,

Peer comment(s):

neutral AllegroTrans : OTT in other words?
1 day 3 hrs
Yes. The original or primordial Spanish adjective is.
Something went wrong...
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search