| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Poll: Test translations: before or after you agree on rates for the job? Thread poster: ProZ.com Staff
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This forum topic is for the discussion of the poll question "Test translations: before or after you agree on rates for the job?".
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| | | | Kay Denney 
France
Local time: 23:02
French to English
Why would anyone bother to do a test without knowing what the budget is? I suppose those answering "before" don't care how much they'll be paid?
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EDIT: I agree on rate BEFORE I do the test. So I should have chosen AFTER.
What else?
No point in being "tested" if the prospect cannot afford my service.
It is very rare nowadays that I consent to a free test without a serious feeling that it's worth it. I've done so many with zero ROI... I usually ask for payment on the condition the outcome is positive. And I can't remember the last time I was notified I failed a test.
Every time I am told "we can... See more EDIT: I agree on rate BEFORE I do the test. So I should have chosen AFTER.
What else?
No point in being "tested" if the prospect cannot afford my service.
It is very rare nowadays that I consent to a free test without a serious feeling that it's worth it. I've done so many with zero ROI... I usually ask for payment on the condition the outcome is positive. And I can't remember the last time I was notified I failed a test.
Every time I am told "we can't agree on rates at this stage, it will depend on the outcome of the test/rates are set on a project basis", I am royally had and never get anywhere - at my rates, that is. Some agencies just don't give a toss about wasting people's time, and they surely know in advance that they don't pay more than 0.0x in EN>FR - the standard rate (ha! ha!) in this language combination.
I have other things to do than systematically accept free tests, like earning a living.
Philippe
EDIT: thanks Kay for explaining the question, I'm a bit thick.
[Edited at 2019-05-29 08:41 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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After agreeing on the rates ánd the conditions - no killer contracts, which are so common in our business nowadays. I have learnt the hard way ... Anyway, it is no guarantee. I once did a paid test at my regular rate, so I assumed the agency accepted it for commercial assignments too. When I had passed the test, they suddenly insisted on a reduction of 40%. Needless to say I never actually worked for this agency.
[Edited at 2019-05-29 08:51 GMT]
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For the reasons given by others. I'm not going to waste my time taking a test unless I know they're willing to pay me a rate that I'm willing to work for.
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I have done tests before agreeing on other important issues, then never heard from the client again.
One sent me a mail a long time later, saying they did not like my test for reasons of style - I altered the structure of the sentences, instead of keeping the source language structure. Their person thought this made them harder to read. (How many times can you do that in a 200-word test?)
I am afraid I am incorrigible. I can often recognise a Google translation because ... See more I have done tests before agreeing on other important issues, then never heard from the client again.
One sent me a mail a long time later, saying they did not like my test for reasons of style - I altered the structure of the sentences, instead of keeping the source language structure. Their person thought this made them harder to read. (How many times can you do that in a 200-word test?)
I am afraid I am incorrigible. I can often recognise a Google translation because the source language syntax is NOT rearranged to the normal target language syntax. I do it all the time!
Would you work with someone who, when translating German, the verb at the end of subordinate clauses put?
In principle, I think tests can be a good idea, but you have to avoid wasting time on tests for agencies who do not appreciate what you have to offer, or will not pay for it!
[Edited at 2019-05-29 11:16 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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As I’ve been translating full-time since 1985 (plus a few years part-time) I always find amusing when I’m asked for a free test, though I understand that sometimes it might be useful to see how a translator treats this or that particular turn of phrase (in literature or journalism, for instance). If I’m really interested in a job I'll be happy to do a short unpaid translation test, providing we have already agreed on price and payment and there is no deadline set for the test, so I can do ... See more As I’ve been translating full-time since 1985 (plus a few years part-time) I always find amusing when I’m asked for a free test, though I understand that sometimes it might be useful to see how a translator treats this or that particular turn of phrase (in literature or journalism, for instance). If I’m really interested in a job I'll be happy to do a short unpaid translation test, providing we have already agreed on price and payment and there is no deadline set for the test, so I can do it at my own pace. I would rather do a translation test for free than sending diplomas, references and the like and having to fill endless forms. Anyway, that’s how I got some of my best clients (direct clients and translation agencies) and some of my highest-paid assignments. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 23:02
French to English
| before or after | May 29, 2019 |
Philippe Etienne wrote:
EDIT: I agree on rate BEFORE I do the test. So I should have chosen AFTER.
EDIT: thanks Kay for explaining the question, I'm a bit thick.
[Edited at 2019-05-29 08:41 GMT]
No you're not thick, I read the question three times before understanding. I think it's so obvious that we need to know the rate before doing a test, that the question comes across as a trick question!
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neilmac
Spain
Local time: 23:02
Spanish to English
+ ...
It's been a long time since I was willing to provide test translations. Most new contacts come to me by word of mouth through satisfied clients and I rarely, if ever, get approaches from agencies, so I don't actually recall the last time I submitted one.
However, that doesn't mean that I wouldn't be open to doing one if a sufficiently succulent and interesting offer came up. Nevertheless, I don't think that's likely to happen in the immediate future.
| | | | DZiW (X)
Ukraine
English to Russian
+ ...
I don't mind even free* preliminary tests, because I don't do them--as well as I'm ok about puny-penny "discount" agencies' rates, because I don't work with agencies.
Business-wise, it makes no sense to do something without knowing the terms.
| | | | Umberto Steindler (X)
Local time: 23:02
German to Italian
+ ...
To be submitted to a test without knowing the name and the qualifications of the "judge", without any guarantee that the result will be kept confidential, without the possibility to see the "corrected" test is a humiliation that no qualified translator should accept.
In any democratic country judges are not anonymous, they are known by name, they have to justify the decision, they have to prove that there is no conflict of interests, what happens in the case of a translator who decides abo... See more To be submitted to a test without knowing the name and the qualifications of the "judge", without any guarantee that the result will be kept confidential, without the possibility to see the "corrected" test is a humiliation that no qualified translator should accept.
In any democratic country judges are not anonymous, they are known by name, they have to justify the decision, they have to prove that there is no conflict of interests, what happens in the case of a translator who decides about a competitor.
The professional ethics of doctors, lawyers and chartered engineers forbids critics of colleagues, especially anonymous critics.
There is always the possibility for agencies to hire university professors as consultants to evaluate candidates. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 23:02
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
It depends on the size of the job and the impression I get from the agency (i.e. if they appear to be likely reliable). I often try to talk about rates before the test, but I don't have a hard rule about it. I advise any new translator to always talk about rates before you do the test... but... I don't do that myself.
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| A test can work both ways | May 29, 2019 |
I can see the point of tests, and they do not have to be anonymous, one-way communication. A translator can use a test as part of a dialogue to test the agency. Ask first whether they will pay, or more important, will they reliably pay reasonable rates afterwards, assuming they are satisfied with the test and send work? Are they helpful and friendly, or does their reaction warn you off?
I have ended up working with a couple very good regular clients after doing tests for them, but I have ... See more I can see the point of tests, and they do not have to be anonymous, one-way communication. A translator can use a test as part of a dialogue to test the agency. Ask first whether they will pay, or more important, will they reliably pay reasonable rates afterwards, assuming they are satisfied with the test and send work? Are they helpful and friendly, or does their reaction warn you off?
I have ended up working with a couple very good regular clients after doing tests for them, but I have also done tests and never heard from the agency again.
Used properly, as part of a dialogue, a test may not be unreasonable. If it is more than about an hour's work, the translator could ask to be paid, maybe not the full rate, but some recognition for the time spent. (Yet another test of the client's reaction…)
Where style is important, a short test can show which of several translators is most suitable. Some agencies do in fact give feedback. If you disagree with their comments, that is a reason to drop them!
A test can be a way for beginners to get a foothold with clients, without long experience or a portfolio of work to show.
Many of us refuse to give references from other clients, and even if it is not against their principles, beginners may not have clients they could ask for a reference. Again, a test can tell clients what they need to know. Beginners should NOT let themselves be exploited, however.
Translators are business partners, not employees. Agencies have no translations to sell to end clients without translators... We may be the bottom of the pyramid, but we are the foundation that everyone else builds on! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Umberto Steindler (X)
Local time: 23:02
German to Italian
+ ...
| Proz.com has already invented a better test | May 29, 2019 |
There is no need for tests because Proz.com has invented a genial system: TM-Town https://www.tm-town.com/ and the Nakodo Search. My experience is, that most agencies are unable to understand it.
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My first instinct is to choose “after”, maybe without too many specific reasons.
But if considering this question carefully, I feel it tends to be more fair and reasonable to discuss the price. Otherwise, the test will lost it’s value and role.
Of course, it also depends on the specific condition, because there are many different circumstances.
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