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Online research: what are you loving and hating?
Thread poster: Elizabeth Adams
Elizabeth Adams
Elizabeth Adams  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 03:34
Member (2002)
Russian to English
Mar 11, 2019

Hi colleagues,
I'm putting together a fresh round of webinars on research skills for translators, and I would love to hear about what is working or not working for you in your day-to-day practice. If you have questions, I'm happy to answer them in the thread.


 
Anna Kiefer
Anna Kiefer
Germany
Local time: 11:34
English to German
+ ...
Personalized search results complicate research Mar 12, 2019

Dear Elizabeth,

sometimes, it is very difficult to get some information on a certain subject online. I have the impression that Google presents only those search results that match previous search items. Since algorithms "try" to personalize our search and findings, some results are sort of kept back.
Moreover, it can be hard to find out the right keywords for the information one is looking for. If you are looking for, e.g. a certain kind of sofa but you do not know that it i
... See more
Dear Elizabeth,

sometimes, it is very difficult to get some information on a certain subject online. I have the impression that Google presents only those search results that match previous search items. Since algorithms "try" to personalize our search and findings, some results are sort of kept back.
Moreover, it can be hard to find out the right keywords for the information one is looking for. If you are looking for, e.g. a certain kind of sofa but you do not know that it is called "Wohnlandschaft" or "Querschläfersofa" in German, you will get search results that are not very useful.

Kind regards
Anna
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Mr.Q
 
Kay-Viktor Stegemann
Kay-Viktor Stegemann
Germany
Local time: 11:34
English to German
In memoriam
Search engines try to be smarter than me Mar 12, 2019

What I hate with any search engine is the fact that they try to be smarter than me and change my search phrase and introduce their own priorities. For example, when I search for a multi-word phrase with some exotic word or spelling in it, search engines start to correct my spelling or change search terms to more popular terms and present me with results that are entirely useless. When I search for a multi word phrase, the most relevant results would be those where the words I entered appear in <... See more
What I hate with any search engine is the fact that they try to be smarter than me and change my search phrase and introduce their own priorities. For example, when I search for a multi-word phrase with some exotic word or spelling in it, search engines start to correct my spelling or change search terms to more popular terms and present me with results that are entirely useless. When I search for a multi word phrase, the most relevant results would be those where the words I entered appear in precisely the order and spelling I entered them. But most search engines (not only Google but also Proz term search, Leo or Linguee) start tinkering around with the search phrase, even if I add quotes (or they do not allow quotes at all), and do not recognize the particular relevance of hits where all search words are present.Collapse


Philippe Etienne
Maria Pia Giuseppina Nuzzolese
Christine Andersen
Elizabeth Adams
MollyRose
Emily Gilby
Joe France
 
Christopher Schröder
Christopher Schröder
United Kingdom
Member (2011)
Swedish to English
+ ...
Google Mar 12, 2019

One bugbear for me is when you search on a phrase in quotes and it comes up with 400,000 hits but when you click through them there are actually only 18.

I would love to know a way of avoiding that.


Chiara Foppa Pedretti
Kate Chaffer
Kay Denney
Maria Pia Giuseppina Nuzzolese
Emanuele Vacca
MollyRose
Emily Gilby
 
Gerard de Noord
Gerard de Noord  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 11:34
Member (2003)
English to Dutch
+ ...
I just love Linguee Mar 12, 2019

Linguee is faster and more helpful than any other online resource I know.

http://www.linguee.com/english-russian/search?query=research%20skills


Vesa Korhonen
Kay Denney
Carlos Teran
Bárbara Hammerle López-Francos
Diana Coada (X)
 
Fiona Grace Peterson
Fiona Grace Peterson  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 11:34
Italian to English
I hate cookies! Mar 12, 2019

I hate when I click on something for research purposes that's completely unrelated to my personal interests (or even that I find vaguely offensive), and the Internet becomes convinced I want to buy said item and I find ads for it everywhere I turn...

Silvia Schulz
Kay-Viktor Stegemann
Matthias Brombach
Kay Denney
Josephine Cassar
Elizabeth Adams
Carlos Teran
 
Matthias Brombach
Matthias Brombach  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 11:34
Member (2007)
Dutch to German
+ ...
Here´s a way ... Mar 12, 2019

... of avoiding that:

Chris S wrote:

One bugbear for me is when you search on a phrase in quotes and it comes up with 400,000 hits but when you click through them there are actually only 18.

I would love to know a way of avoiding that.


a way of avoiding that

Should be self-explaining and I hope, it helps.


 
Kay Denney
Kay Denney  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 11:34
French to English
quotes Mar 12, 2019

Matthias Brombach wrote:

... of avoiding that:

Chris S wrote:

One bugbear for me is when you search on a phrase in quotes and it comes up with 400,000 hits but when you click through them there are actually only 18.

I would love to know a way of avoiding that.


a way of avoiding that

Should be self-explaining and I hope, it helps.


except that Chris specified "in quotes".
Like Chris, I have found that putting the search phrase in quotes doesn't necessarily throw up the exact turn of phrase. There's often a bit of punctuation in the wrong place for example.

Another thing that bugs me is when I need to look on a UK website, but the website detects that I'm in France and absolutely wants me to go to the French version. Well of course, they're hoping I'll buy something and it's obviously more practical for them to have me order from the French website. But I just need to know that that particular type of top or shoe is called in English.


Josephine Cassar
Kay-Viktor Stegemann
Christine Andersen
Elizabeth Adams
Roni_S
 
Matthias Brombach
Matthias Brombach  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 11:34
Member (2007)
Dutch to German
+ ...
Both ... Mar 12, 2019

Kay Denney wrote:


except that Chris specified "in quotes".


I see, my post is not self-explaining:

It works only with the shown settings AND with the searched phrase in quotes (as in the figure above in my first post).

[Bearbeitet am 2019-03-12 16:10 GMT]


 
Elizabeth Adams
Elizabeth Adams  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 03:34
Member (2002)
Russian to English
TOPIC STARTER
Forcing quotes Mar 12, 2019

I do like the verbatim tool, but a lot of times you come up with nothing that way. Which is also important information, if you think about it.

Another way to force the search engine to use all your terms (and not just some of them) is to use "must include" -

2019-03-12 09_20_06-shareholder equity cranberry - Google Search

But again, if I have to use this option it probably means something in my search terms is off.


[Edited at 2019-03-12 16:25 GMT]


 
Christine Andersen
Christine Andersen  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 11:34
Member (2003)
Danish to English
+ ...
Bring back AltaVista! Mar 12, 2019

THAT was a useful search engine. Back in those days, I was told:
Computers are stupid. They do as you tell them, EXACTLY.

You could set languages, and use Boolean logic. Altavista took you at your word. Very often it 'only' found three or four hits, maybe ten, rather than thousands or millions. Call that stupid if you like, but hey, three hits that tell you precisely what you want to know are in fact brilliant.

Only a computer is stupid enough to imagine humans ha
... See more
THAT was a useful search engine. Back in those days, I was told:
Computers are stupid. They do as you tell them, EXACTLY.

You could set languages, and use Boolean logic. Altavista took you at your word. Very often it 'only' found three or four hits, maybe ten, rather than thousands or millions. Call that stupid if you like, but hey, three hits that tell you precisely what you want to know are in fact brilliant.

Only a computer is stupid enough to imagine humans have time to find the needle in a haystack of 3 million hits. Or, as it may turn out, eighteen misses...



[Edited at 2019-03-12 17:10 GMT]
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Kay-Viktor Stegemann
Philippe Etienne
Kay Denney
MollyRose
Anton Konashenok
 
Elizabeth Adams
Elizabeth Adams  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 03:34
Member (2002)
Russian to English
TOPIC STARTER
Alta Vista!! Mar 12, 2019

But the internet as a whole was so much less useful back then!!

Christine Andersen wrote:

THAT was a useful search engine. Back in those days, I was told:
Computers are stupid. They do as you tell them, EXACTLY.

You could set languages, and use Boolean logic. Altavista took you at your word. Very often it 'only' found three or four hits, maybe ten, rather than thousands or millions. Call that stupid if you like, but hey, three hits that tell you precisely what you want to know are in fact brilliant.

Only a computer is stupid enough to imagine humans have time to find the needle in a haystack of 3 million hits. Or, as it may turn out, eighteen misses...



[Edited at 2019-03-12 17:10 GMT]


 
Elizabeth Adams
Elizabeth Adams  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 03:34
Member (2002)
Russian to English
TOPIC STARTER
forcing quotes Mar 12, 2019

I think this particular issue is less of a problem than we tend to think. Not to say it isn't annoying - because it is - but often what feels like bait and switch is actually the search engine telling you that you aren't using the right words yet. I find that "bait and switch" happens when I jump in and start looking for something I've decided might be the answer, which happens to be wrong.

Kay-Viktor Stegemann wrote:

What I hate with any search engine is the fact that they try to be smarter than me and change my search phrase and introduce their own priorities. For example, when I search for a multi-word phrase with some exotic word or spelling in it, search engines start to correct my spelling or change search terms to more popular terms and present me with results that are entirely useless. When I search for a multi word phrase, the most relevant results would be those where the words I entered appear in precisely the order and spelling I entered them. But most search engines (not only Google but also Proz term search, Leo or Linguee) start tinkering around with the search phrase, even if I add quotes (or they do not allow quotes at all), and do not recognize the particular relevance of hits where all search words are present.


 
Elizabeth Adams
Elizabeth Adams  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 03:34
Member (2002)
Russian to English
TOPIC STARTER
Location troubles Mar 12, 2019

Agree 100%. I won't even talk about Google's location settings because they don't do much. Has anyone tried tricking the search engine into thinking you are in a particular location?

Kay Denney wrote:

Matthias Brombach wrote:

... of avoiding that:

Chris S wrote:

One bugbear for me is when you search on a phrase in quotes and it comes up with 400,000 hits but when you click through them there are actually only 18.

I would love to know a way of avoiding that.


a way of avoiding that

Should be self-explaining and I hope, it helps.


except that Chris specified "in quotes".
Like Chris, I have found that putting the search phrase in quotes doesn't necessarily throw up the exact turn of phrase. There's often a bit of punctuation in the wrong place for example.

Another thing that bugs me is when I need to look on a UK website, but the website detects that I'm in France and absolutely wants me to go to the French version. Well of course, they're hoping I'll buy something and it's obviously more practical for them to have me order from the French website. But I just need to know that that particular type of top or shoe is called in English.



 
Kay-Viktor Stegemann
Kay-Viktor Stegemann
Germany
Local time: 11:34
English to German
In memoriam
That's what I mean with "try to be smarter" Mar 12, 2019

Elizabeth Adams wrote:

I think this particular issue is less of a problem than we tend to think. Not to say it isn't annoying - because it is - but often what feels like bait and switch is actually the search engine telling you that you aren't using the right words yet. I find that "bait and switch" happens when I jump in and start looking for something I've decided might be the answer, which happens to be wrong.

Kay-Viktor Stegemann wrote:

What I hate with any search engine is the fact that they try to be smarter than me and change my search phrase and introduce their own priorities. For example, when I search for a multi-word phrase with some exotic word or spelling in it, search engines start to correct my spelling or change search terms to more popular terms and present me with results that are entirely useless. When I search for a multi word phrase, the most relevant results would be those where the words I entered appear in precisely the order and spelling I entered them. But most search engines (not only Google but also Proz term search, Leo or Linguee) start tinkering around with the search phrase, even if I add quotes (or they do not allow quotes at all), and do not recognize the particular relevance of hits where all search words are present.


Elizabeth, you (and the search engines) might be right for searches by the general public, but when I use search engines as a translator, I often have a certain phrase or term that I need to research, and this term is a given, because it appears in the source I have to translate. My search term is not something I came up with, it is something my client came up with, so a discussion whether this search term might be useful or not is totally beside the point - it is exactly this term that I need to translate right now and therefore I have to dig it up in the Internet or a dictionary if possible at all. Just an hour ago I had such a case: I had to translate the term "gear key" (in an automotive context), and this is a typical problem. This thing is a certain part of an automotive transmission, and the single terms "gear" and "key" are extremely generic, multi-purpose words; a search for these words in any other order or spelling than the precise string "gear key" will render enormous amounts of totally irrelevant results. So yes, this is very much of a problem, and the search engine telling me that I'm not using the right words feels just like mocking to me.


Elizabeth Adams
Kay Denney
Christine Andersen
Vera Schoen
Anna Kiefer
 
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Online research: what are you loving and hating?







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