| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | 5th Proz.com Translation Contest Qualification Round has just started Thread poster: RominaZ
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RominaZ 
Argentina
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Dear Susie and Marian,
You cannot see the option to vote for an entry at this stage because both of you voted negatively for a winning entry in past contests.
I'll send more detailed information to both of you on this regard. However, you will be able to vote in the final phase starting next week.
Regards,
Romina
| | | | Susie Miles (X)
Local time: 07:35
English to Spanish
| I don't remember having voted negatively before...... | Nov 29, 2007 |
Dear Romina,
I am sorry. I don't remember having voted negatively during the only other contest in which I participated (the Third Translation Contest) with my comments. I made comments regarding errors or phrases/terms well resolved, comments which were visible to all at the final round.. I even received a prize for having participated with my comments.
Can you please let me know which was the negative vote against a winning entry????
Thank you,
Susie
RominaZ wrote:
Dear Susie and Marian,
You cannot see the option to vote for an entry at this stage because both of you voted negatively for a winning entry in past contests.
I'll send more detailed information to both of you on this regard. However, you will be able to vote in the final phase starting next week.
Regards,
Romina
| | | | RominaZ
Argentina
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Details on the entries | Nov 29, 2007 |
Dear Susie,
Susie Miles wrote:
Can you please let me know which was the negative vote against a winning entry????
Thank you,
Susie
I´ve already sent you and Marian the information about the entries via email.
If you have further doubts please contact me.
Regards,
Romina
| | | | Susie Miles (X)
Local time: 07:35
English to Spanish
| My apologies, Romina | Nov 29, 2007 |
Dear Romina,
After having exchanged e-mail messages with you this afternoon, I realize that maybe I was not aware about what the negative votes really meant at that time of the Third Contest. I was quite a new member, had no idea about Rule 12, etc.
So, here go my sincere apologies to you...
Nevertheless, of course my comment in that case (together with the negative vote which was recorded) was duly and openly explained and I still think it was pertinent.... See more Dear Romina,
After having exchanged e-mail messages with you this afternoon, I realize that maybe I was not aware about what the negative votes really meant at that time of the Third Contest. I was quite a new member, had no idea about Rule 12, etc.
So, here go my sincere apologies to you...
Nevertheless, of course my comment in that case (together with the negative vote which was recorded) was duly and openly explained and I still think it was pertinent.
As regards to your efforts in coordinating this event, I really appreciate your always kind attitude towards our questions and complaints. Hope everything comes out successfully!
Cordially, Susie
RominaZ wrote: Dear Susie, Susie Miles wrote:
Can you please let me know which was the negative vote against a winning entry????
Thank you,
Susie
I´ve already sent you and Marian the information about the entries via email. If you have further doubts please contact me. Regards, Romina ▲ Collapse
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| Answer to question | Nov 30, 2007 |
RominaZ wrote:
Both positive and negative votes are computed to define the qualification. This does not depend on the number of entries.
I'd like to take this opportunity to remind all of you taking part in the contest that "No comments about the submitted entries will be allowed during the qualification and voting phases."
Thanks
Romina
The question has not, I think, been answered. The questioner wants to know how many negative votes result in disqualification, and how many positive votes results in qualification.
Thank you,
Kathleen
| | | | patyjs
Mexico
Local time: 04:35
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Exactly....how many votes? | Nov 30, 2007 |
I agree with Kathleen, Romina. You still haven't answered Henar's question about how many votes are needed to qualify or be disqualified (or the differential).
I also agree with Roland's points system (which I also brought up during the last contest). My suggestion would be that in the qualifying round, which I think is necessary given the number of entries, voters can give up to 5 points. When an entry has received 3 votes it is no longer available for voting although may still ... See more I agree with Kathleen, Romina. You still haven't answered Henar's question about how many votes are needed to qualify or be disqualified (or the differential).
I also agree with Roland's points system (which I also brought up during the last contest). My suggestion would be that in the qualifying round, which I think is necessary given the number of entries, voters can give up to 5 points. When an entry has received 3 votes it is no longer available for voting although may still be visible. The number of points given to the entry are not shown. This way you can make sure that every entry gets three votes. At the end of the round the top 10 or 12 or n% of the number of entries go through to the final round.
Someone also mentioned voting from non-native speakers of the target language. I, for one, list my language pairs as SP-EN and EN-SP although I the only time really I translate into Spanish is for gist and for someone I know. I'm sure this is the case for many Prozians. I don't feel it qualifies me to vote on entries into Spanish although I can. Perhaps voting should be restricted to native language(s) instead of language pairs.
Great job, Romina
Paty ▲ Collapse
| | | | Henar Chico (X)
United States
Local time: 04:35
English to Spanish
+ ...
Hi all, Romina did answer my question regarding the computation of votes, although she couldn't give me the exact number needed to be qualified/disqualified to preserve the integrity of the contest.
I have posted my following question on another forum (http://www.proz.com/post/729706#729706), but this one seems to be more popular ... See more Hi all, Romina did answer my question regarding the computation of votes, although she couldn't give me the exact number needed to be qualified/disqualified to preserve the integrity of the contest.
I have posted my following question on another forum (http://www.proz.com/post/729706#729706), but this one seems to be more popular
One of the things I don't understand is why entries are allowed to be disqualified before the qualification phase ends. I realize that some people do not want to read all of the entries, but let's say I do, but I don't get to do it until the last day of the qualification phase because I have been busy. By that time, I can't vote on all of the entries because many have been disqualified by the people that were able to vote before me, thus making it impossible for me to judge all of the entries as I would have liked. If there is going to be a qualification phase, I think all entries should be left up until the phase is over, and then compute the positive and negative votes. The people that do not wish to read all entries can wait for the final phase, while the rest can vote on ALL entries at any time during the qualification phase.
I am sure together we will be able to come up with a great system to cast votes!
Thanks,
Henar Chico ▲ Collapse
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patyjs
Mexico
Local time: 04:35
Spanish to English
+ ...
| I don't understand. | Nov 30, 2007 |
Henar Chico wrote:
Hi all, Romina did answer my question regarding the computation of votes, although she couldn't give me the exact number needed to be qualified/disqualified to preserve the integrity of the contest.
I'm sorry, Henar, I don't see how disclosing this information would harm the integrity of the contest. Perhaps I'm being a bit naïve...
| | | | RominaZ
Argentina
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Dear All,
Please accept my apologies. Rule 12 is to be implemented in this contest, but considering the negative votes cast for winning entries of only the 4th Contest and not previous contests, as this rule was announced during the 4th contest.
I'd like to apologize to Susie, Angioletta and Marian. You should be able to see the vote button now. Please contact me if you have further problems.
Best regards,
Romina
| | | | patyjs
Mexico
Local time: 04:35
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Something else... | Nov 30, 2007 |
I've just thought of something else....
What happens to the entries that either don't reach the required number of + votes or don't "compute" as qualifying at the end of the first round? Does someone else (moderator(s) or site staff, for example) get the deciding vote? A points system would eliminate the need for that. 
Paty
| | | | Henar Chico (X)
United States
Local time: 04:35
English to Spanish
+ ...
| I agree with pattyjs | Nov 30, 2007 |
patyjs wrote: I've just thought of something else.... What happens to the entries that either don't reach the required number of + votes or don't "compute" as qualifying at the end of the first round? Does someone else (moderator(s) or site staff, for example) get the deciding vote? A points system would eliminate the need for that. Paty
So far there are only 4 qualified entries in the English to Spanish contest, out of 45. True, there are still 5 days left to vote, but if there are entries left at the "not yet qualified" stage, do they go forward to the final round, or will they be left out?
Thanks!!
Henar
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| My general (and detailed/long) feedback about the voting system | Nov 30, 2007 |
Hi,
After having participated in 3 contests (either as only voter or only translator or both), I have the following feedback about the voting system for the contests, based on my language pair, EN-ES (which, btw, as it happens in so many other areas of this pair, so far has proven to be the most "populated" one in regards to the number of entries/participants):
1) In a voting system that leaves all initial qualification partly in the hands of the contest participants th... See more Hi,
After having participated in 3 contests (either as only voter or only translator or both), I have the following feedback about the voting system for the contests, based on my language pair, EN-ES (which, btw, as it happens in so many other areas of this pair, so far has proven to be the most "populated" one in regards to the number of entries/participants):
1) In a voting system that leaves all initial qualification partly in the hands of the contest participants themselves (because any Proz.com member, but also the participants themselves can vote), both positive and negative votes may be the result of a given individual's subjective judgment and/or interest.
You can vote positively for a translation that is not necessarily qualified in general
AND
you can vote negatively for a translation that is actually qualified in general.
Therefore, I don't understand why voting negatively is being "penalized", because in both cases you can be making an unfair/subjective judgment.
2) The voting system, as it exists right now, in spite of the good intentions of Proz.com and the idea of "just for fun" of the contests (which I absolutely agree with), allows "secret" alliances at any of the voting stages, which is not really so much fun.
That is, it is possible* to have a group of individuals/members agree to vote for a given entry in order to have it make the final round and, furthermore, the winning entry; or, viceversa, have them vote negatively against a number of entries, to eliminate competitors.
*DISCLAIMER: I am not saying it has happened, I am just saying it is possible.
3) Right now it is not possible to remove entries once your entry has been entered and the initial voting or final round have started.
So, considering points 1 - 3 above, I have the following suggestions:
a) Self-requested removal of entries should be allowed at any stage of the contest.
For example, in my case, I realized at least 2 mistakes in my translation after I sent it and I was not allowed to remove my entry, because it was in theory too late when I realized my mistake (already in the initial voting round). If I were able to remove my entry, I would give other participants a better chance, because I know I made 2 mistakes that should disqualify my entry.
b) As already suggested, a points system should be created to qualify ALL entries beforehand.
For example, for every typo or spelling mistake, XXX number of points should be deducted. For every translation omission, XXX number of points should be deducted. For every mistranslation, XXX number of points should be omitted. Etc. etc.
Of course, you would need to design/create a detailed points system (I am sure you can find similar examples if you search the Internet for words like "contest rules" or, best, directly consult this with other contest organizers in the world).
You would need to assign a duly qualified committee/panel of judges who would make the initial filtering of all submitted entries based on the points system.
In the case of a language which has more than one version, I suggest a panel made up of an equal number of native speakers of each given version (for example, in Spanish, members both from Spain and Latin America).
c) Therefore, only those translations with XXX number of points would make the initial round.
It would be ideal to have a first screen showing ALL entries submitted.
Then a second screen showing those entries that made the initial points filtering (showing the points deducted according to each category and/or the total points that made the entries be qualified).
d) Then have a first general voting round where BOTH Proz.com members and the panel of judges voted (but ONLY POSITIVELY) to any entry they wish to vote for.
In this case, each vote of the panel of judges would count more than that of each Proz.com member voter (for example, 3 points for each vote of a panel member and 1 point for each vote of a Proz.com member voter), to "balance" things in case of "secret alliances" among Proz.com members (in theory the panel of judges should be "impartial").
d) Should the first general voting round finish with a tie, have another similar voting round until a final winner is chosen.
Though I realize my suggestions involve a bigger organization effort for Proz.com, I honestly think that with this kind of system (or a similar one resulting from all constructive suggestions about this) Proz.com would achieve a better initial qualification of entries in general and would avoid at least part of the problems already mentioned in points 1 & 2 above.
Best regards,
Ivette ▲ Collapse
| | | | patyjs
Mexico
Local time: 04:35
Spanish to English
+ ...
| I just found this gem! | Nov 30, 2007 |
I found this from Goodwords in the forum from the last contest. I didn't see it then but the idea is SO good...
"The Spanish>English portion of the contest has 27 qualified entries, by far the most of any pair. When I started to read them to prepare my vote, I realized I would find it difficult to vote objectively because there are so many entries and so many factors to keep in mind, not to mention the mental fatigue by the time I have reached the end of the 27.
I deci... See more I found this from Goodwords in the forum from the last contest. I didn't see it then but the idea is SO good...
"The Spanish>English portion of the contest has 27 qualified entries, by far the most of any pair. When I started to read them to prepare my vote, I realized I would find it difficult to vote objectively because there are so many entries and so many factors to keep in mind, not to mention the mental fatigue by the time I have reached the end of the 27.
I decided to start making a table that will help me to prepare to vote. The idea is to prepare a summary of my opinions on the entries in such a way that I can quickly compare across entries how they treated any particular expression, and at the same time, get an overview of my opinion on any given entry. I'm sharing it with you here, in case anyone else may find this technique, or a variation of it, helpful.
To get started, I have opened an Excel worksheet. Across the top, I'm putting the anonymous ID numbers of the entries, so that columns will correspond to entries. In the first column, I'm putting as row headers all the expressions and turns of phrase that I thought offered particular challenges. Then in each row, I fill in the solution which the entrant in the corresponding column gave for that expression.
To make it easy to see my opinion at a glance, I am colouring the cell red if I don't like the solution, and pink if I think it was not quite optimal, but not wrong either. If I think the solution was OK, I am leaving it black in regular font, and if I think it was particularly inspired, I am bolding it.
When I am finished, I will be able to scan the table and see at a glance which entries I thought were the best (no red, not too much pink, and possibly more bold cells).
Edited to add: Now that I've processed a few entries, I found it useful to add one more colour code: blue for "better than OK" but not quite as outstanding as the solutions I put in bold. So, to summarize, I have regular black font for good solutions, blue for better solutions worth noting, and bold for excellent solutions. On the negative side I have red for solutions I don't like at all and pink for those that I think could have been better but aren't out-and-out wrong."
This is brilliant, Goodwords!
An on-screen color system like this would be a workable alternative to points, I think, especially in the qualifying round. You hit the appropriate buttons/colors as you read. As you finish reading each entry you hit "done". At the end of the qualifying period the system would then compute which entries pass to the next round. Of course, all entries would need to have the same number of voters but that shouldn't be difficult to arrange.
The final round would have to be a little different to consider overall readability etc.
Definitely worth thinking about, IMO. 
Paty
[Edited at 2007-11-30 15:43] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Henar Chico (X)
United States
Local time: 04:35
English to Spanish
+ ...
| Splitting the EN>SP pair | Nov 30, 2007 |
I know this will be controversial, but it might not be a bad idea to split the En>Sp contest into Latin American Spanish and Castilian Spanish. I know we can get into a debate of then splitting between the different countries in Latin America, but, if you look at the job postings, they generally ask for Latin American speakers, rarely from a specific country. So as long as you are a Latin American Spanish speaker, you can bid, whereas I can't. In any case, it might make it easier for people t... See more I know this will be controversial, but it might not be a bad idea to split the En>Sp contest into Latin American Spanish and Castilian Spanish. I know we can get into a debate of then splitting between the different countries in Latin America, but, if you look at the job postings, they generally ask for Latin American speakers, rarely from a specific country. So as long as you are a Latin American Spanish speaker, you can bid, whereas I can't. In any case, it might make it easier for people that vote to go through the entries if they are divided into two smaller groups. Just an idea. Keep them coming!
Henar ▲ Collapse
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