| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | Bug in contest code led to "leak" of entries in a handful of pairs Thread poster: Henry Dotterer
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| Henry, would you like input from all Proz users? | Mar 27, 2008 |
Or only those in the affected pairs?
BTW, like others I very much appreciate the feedback and request for input that Proz gives its users and members, but I do wonder if some things sometimes get taken a little too seriously!
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Thanks, everyone, for responding to the survey so quickly. At the risk of being accused of acting based only on a small sample, I feel the results show a consensus view and I think we are ready to move forward without further delaying the contest process.
Generally speaking, there appears to be a clear preference for lenient measures to address the leak. In fact, especially in light of its late addition to the choices, 'ignore' seems to be the preferred approach. However, to ensure... See more Thanks, everyone, for responding to the survey so quickly. At the risk of being accused of acting based only on a small sample, I feel the results show a consensus view and I think we are ready to move forward without further delaying the contest process.
Generally speaking, there appears to be a clear preference for lenient measures to address the leak. In fact, especially in light of its late addition to the choices, 'ignore' seems to be the preferred approach. However, to ensure the integrity of the contest, and to put to-be-winners in a position that the legitimacy of their wins will not be questioned unduly, I feel that we would have to top short of a full 'ignore'. This view may be influenced by the knowledge that we now know that in at least two cases, there was (completely innocent) communication between non-members who saw entries and members who submitted them.
Therefore, in light of your feedback, we have decided to proceed with a 'modified selective' approach that leans towards the 'ignore' side, ie. that is lenient, and that relies on the honesty of participants (just as the ignore option does.)
Thanks again. We will post when preparations have been completed. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Another "ignore" | Mar 27, 2008 |
Nick Lingris wrote:
As a result, my stand on this is that we should go ahead with the voting as if the bug had never happened. Add “Ignore it” to the poll and I’ll vote for it.
My option too is "ignore it".
| | | | | Not A Gold Bug Indeed! | Mar 27, 2008 |
I'm very much disappointed at how ProZ could make such a blunder. As we all know, there are some brands in the world of business whose ownership goes far beyond that of its owner at law. This is due to their indisputable success in their respective industry. ProZ has ever been the leading brand of the translation industry for me, and I believe it to be a property of all ProZians, not solely of Henry Dotterer or anyone else. Hence, I couldn't believe my eyes when I came across Henry's message abo... See more I'm very much disappointed at how ProZ could make such a blunder. As we all know, there are some brands in the world of business whose ownership goes far beyond that of its owner at law. This is due to their indisputable success in their respective industry. ProZ has ever been the leading brand of the translation industry for me, and I believe it to be a property of all ProZians, not solely of Henry Dotterer or anyone else. Hence, I couldn't believe my eyes when I came across Henry's message about the bug. Bugs, etc are too trivial to occur under the structure of ProZ.
I can honestly say that I would leave ProZ forever if a decision to "ignore" had not been made. I would definitely like to vote for the "ignore it" option. What would be the guilt of those who spent endless hours translating such an ardous text if the value of their precious labour had been neglected and ruined? I believe that nothing could suffice to compensate the damage that would have been caused in case of cancellation or any other sort of invalidation.
I hope as a loyal ProZian that this does not recur.
Best regards. ▲ Collapse
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Maria Karra 
United States
Local time: 01:25
Member (2000)
Greek to English
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| sorry but... it's a contest after all | Mar 27, 2008 |
Çağdaş Karataş wrote:
I'm very much disappointed at how ProZ could make such a blunder.
Have you ever coded or tested software? Do you know how easy it is to introduce a bug? No matter how careful you are, there are always bugs. And it's almost always impossible to find them all unless you have an unlimited amount of time.
In my work I have found bugs that could cost lives had they not been found and fixed. So when I read Henry's posting and the subsequent replies I felt that we are taking this a little too seriously. It's a contest!
I can honestly say that I would leave ProZ forever if a decision to "ignore" had not been made.
Really? You would leave a virtual workplace where you can meet clients and colleagues, find jobs and valuable advice related to our work, because of a bug in a contest that affected a few language pairs?
What would be the guilt of those who spent endless hours translating such an ardous text if the value of their precious labour had been neglected and ruined? I believe that nothing could suffice to compensate the damage that would have been caused in case of cancellation or any other sort of invalidation.
Endless hours? Did people really spend endless hours? Was the contest so hard and time-consuming that a cancellation would cause such irreparable damage? I couldn't participate in this contest because I've been a little too busy lately, but did the texts really take that long to translate? I'd rather spend endless hours on an endless real job (preferably with an endless compensation), to be honest. I hope you're exaggerating; otherwise what you're saying is a little discouraging to me.
Bottom line, I don't consider this to be a very serious problem. It's unfortunate that there was a bug in the contest, but you know, bugs do occur; some are serious, some are trivial, but they're everywhere. Let's cut our developers some slack and move on.
Maria
| | | | | Speaking words of wisdom, Let it be... | Mar 27, 2008 |
Maria Karra wrote:
Have you ever coded or tested software? Do you know how easy it is to introduce a bug? No matter how careful you are, there are always bugs. And it's almost always impossible to find them all unless you have an unlimited amount of time.
In my work I have found bugs that could cost lives had they not been found and fixed. So when I read Henry's posting and the subsequent replies I felt that we are taking this a little too seriously.
Absolutely!
Endless hours? Did people really spend endless hours? Was the contest so hard and time-consuming that a cancellation would cause such irreparable damage? I couldn't participate in this contest because I've been a little too busy lately, but did the texts really take that long to translate? I'd rather spend endless hours on an endless real job (preferably with an endless compensation), to be honest. I hope you're exaggerating; otherwise what you're saying is a little discouraging to me.
Come on! The colleague must have been kidding. I agree with every word of yours. If you spend 'endless hours' on a text like that, something must be wrong with either the text or the translator. Or, let me be more polite, with the translator's attitude to the text.
Bottom line, I don't consider this to be a very serious problem... Let's cut our developers some slack and move on.
Maria
Compared with what proz.com has been giving me daily for several years, even a hundred bugs like that will not be a reason enough for me to cast a stone at anyone who is moving that machine. That's a wrong attitude, for sure.
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Maria Karra wrote: Çağdaş Karataş wrote:
I'm very much disappointed at how ProZ could make such a blunder. Have you ever coded or tested software? Do you know how easy it is to introduce a bug? No matter how careful you are, there are always bugs. And it's almost always impossible to find them all unless you have an unlimited amount of time. In my work I have found bugs that could cost lives had they not been found and fixed. So when I read Henry's posting and the subsequent replies I felt that we are taking this a little too seriously. It's a contest! I can honestly say that I would leave ProZ forever if a decision to "ignore" had not been made. Really? You would leave a virtual workplace where you can meet clients and colleagues, find jobs and valuable advice related to our work, because of a bug in a contest that affected a few language pairs? What would be the guilt of those who spent endless hours translating such an ardous text if the value of their precious labour had been neglected and ruined? I believe that nothing could suffice to compensate the damage that would have been caused in case of cancellation or any other sort of invalidation. Endless hours? Did people really spend endless hours? Was the contest so hard and time-consuming that a cancellation would cause such irreparable damage? I couldn't participate in this contest because I've been a little too busy lately, but did the texts really take that long to translate? I'd rather spend endless hours on an endless real job (preferably with an endless compensation), to be honest. I hope you're exaggerating; otherwise what you're saying is a little discouraging to me. Bottom line, I don't consider this to be a very serious problem. It's unfortunate that there was a bug in the contest, but you know, bugs do occur; some are serious, some are trivial, but they're everywhere. Let's cut our developers some slack and move on. Maria
I'm terribly sorry, Maria. I feel I have exaggerated it all.
I'll keep it brief and shut up then:
"Bug: a programming error which causes a malfunction
Error: a mistake"
I don't care for the rest. Btw I love contests and take them extremely serious
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Yuri Smirnov wrote:
Come on! The colleague must have been kidding. I agree with every word of yours. If you spend 'endless hours' on a text like that, something must be wrong with either the text or the translator. Or, let me be more polite, with the translator's attitude to the text.
Your opinion is yours and my attitudes are mine.
Compared with what proz.com has been giving me daily for several years, even a hundred bugs like that will not be a reason enough for me to cast a stone at anyone who is moving that machine. That's a wrong attitude, for sure.
Casting stones has nothing to do with Çağdaş Karataş!
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| Of course, not | Mar 27, 2008 |
Compared with what proz.com has been giving me daily for several years, even a hundred bugs like that will not be a reason enough for me to cast a stone at anyone who is moving that machine. That's a wrong attitude, for sure.
Casting stones has nothing to do with Çağdaş Karataş!
Of course, not. It has to do everything with me. I say I will not cast stones, not you. You're absolutely right.
| | | | vera12191
Germany
Local time: 07:25
English to Russian
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Maria Karra wrote:
Endless hours? Did people really spend endless hours? Was the contest so hard and time-consuming that a cancellation would cause such irreparable damage? I couldn't participate in this contest because I've been a little too busy lately, but did the texts really take that long to translate? I'd rather spend endless hours on an endless real job (preferably with an endless compensation), to be honest. I hope you're exaggerating; otherwise what you're saying is a little discouraging to me.
Perhaps it is Çağdaş' exaggeration: not endless, but many hours. If a translator says that it was a matter of one hour I would strongly doubt her or his work attitude and seriousness because in this contest the extracts in Russian and English come from the genres perhaps most difficult in writing: that of autobiographical essay and philosophical essay. Second, in our industry, contests function as a trade show where your translation will be examined, commented and evaluated by the most experienced and demanding audience - your peers.
Yes, it is really time-consuming to make your translation rhythmical in a typologically different languages, to make it sound as if it is an independent work of art, not a translation. Finally, we are here not to compare individual translation skills and outputs but to respect any contribution regardless of whether the compensation is actual or virtual.
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And may be let the "suspended" authors have a look at their text (without possibility to change) ?
For example, if my translation is spoiled, I personally would have a right to cancel it. But not more.
| | | | | Right, vera12191 and Çağdaş | Mar 29, 2008 |
vera12191 wrote:
Perhaps it is Çağdaş' exaggeration: not endless, but many hours.
We know. However many hours have been invested, we understand how disappointing it would be to lose the chance to compete because of an error on our part. Once again, my apologies.
We are human and we will surely make mistakes again, but preventing this sort of leak is something that is certainly within our minimum level of responsibility (and capability). We'll take better care in the future!
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| Translation is the art | Mar 30, 2008 |
Minoru Kuwahara wrote:
*** English to Japanese ***
Hello Henry and all site staffs in charge of "ProZ.com Translation Contests",
Thank you for clarifying the situation. Referring to "English to Japanese" which seemed to be unfortunately included in the "hybrid" pairs, I posted first for this language pair and did so well in advance before all the other posters. Truly I have not noticed this leakage issue at all for the entire open stage, when I was constantly accessing the Contests page to read and revise my initial entry a number of times over the past weeks. As indicated on the page, I remember the second poster submitted his/hers some time after my submission and all the other 3 followed almost at around the closing period, in the last 1 or 2 weeks before the initially set deadline. From this, I may have to be aware my entry, which was first, might have been exposed to leakage most probably at a highest level in this pair.
< English to Japanese >
I was third in submitting an "english-japanese" entry, and never edited my entry after submitted.
I have not noticed this leakage issue at all until today when I have received an e-mail from ProZ.com staff.
By the way, I think it easy to know if someone , if any, have viewing other posters' entries. Translation is the art
| | | | Nobuo Kawamura
Japan
Local time: 14:25
Member
English to Japanese
+ ...
| Translation contest | Mar 30, 2008 |
Dear Henry
The following are my replies to the questions:
1) Did you by any chance see entries submitted by others
before you submitted yours?
No.
2) Did you hear anything about them from anyone else?
No.
These things happen. You can proceed with or you can cancel the entire event as you may consider fit.
Best regards.
Nobuo Kawamura
| | | | vera12191
Germany
Local time: 07:25
English to Russian
+ ...
| Errare humanum est | Mar 30, 2008 |
Henry D wrote:
We know. However many hours have been invested, we understand how disappointing it would be to lose the chance to compete because of an error on our part. Once again, my apologies.
The mistake was merely technical. I appreciate very much your openness and willingness to take responsibility for the leak.
My choice was "ignore it" because I'm confident that possible "borrowings" from someone's translation(s) may somewhat improve a good text, however will never save a poor one. I'd rather ignore this "minor crime" and pretend the it didn't happen, rather than offend any innocent person.
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