| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | $71 million for one word misinterpreted Thread poster: Jeff Whittaker
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| Difficult to believe yet true | Jul 23, 2006 |
Richard Creech wrote: Luis Arri Cibils wrote:
Dear colleagues:
The so-called expert witness, over the objections of the defense attorney, had testified that Hispanics are prone to violence and that the accused would likely, because he was Hispanic, repeat the crime. While expert witnesses certainly say all sorts of things, I find it extremely difficult to believe that a court would allow such a blatantly racist statement to be offered into evidence in this day and age without there being any outcry by the media or Hispanic groups. Kindly provide evidence of your claim (e.g. case number).
Indeed it is highly difficult to believe. Yet, it is true. Here you have an excerpt and the link to one of the many reports on the case:
During Mr. Saldano's 1996 punishment hearing in which the death penalty was imposed, prosecutors called an expert witness who said that " . . . because [Saldano] is Hispanic, this was a factor weighing in favor of future dangerousness." The prosecution's expert witness, Dr. Walter Quijano, said he based his testimony on the fact that "African Americans and Hispanics are over-represented in prison compared with their percentage of the general population."
http://www.oag.state.tx.us/newspubs/newsarchive/2002/20020521saldano.htm
Quijano, the expert witness, was from the Phillipines.
And here you have a report of the case at the US. Supreme Court level:
http://news.corporate.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/saldano/saldanopressrelease.html
I would not believed it myself, had I not had a direct involvement: the murder occurred, as I said, within 2 miles of my home in Dallas, so I knew the case; and I was asked by the Argentine Counsel to search for a defense attorney for the appeal.
Now, don't be surprised. The Court of Criminal Appeals of Texas (the Texas Supreme Court for Criminal Appeals) rejected a case for incompetent representation by an individual that was convicted while his attorney slept during trial.
[Edited at 2006-07-23 04:24]
[Edited at 2006-07-23 04:29]
[Edited at 2006-07-23 04:33]
| | | | | The case of the sleeping lawyer in a capital murder case | Jul 23, 2006 |
Richard:
Before you kindly ask me to give you info re the sleeping defense attorney, here you have one of the many links on the subject:
Please note this comment on the excerpt:
“The Constitution says everyone’s entitled to the attorney of their choice . . . The Constitution doesn’t say the lawyer has to be awake.”[18]
The Texas Cour... See more Richard:
Before you kindly ask me to give you info re the sleeping defense attorney, here you have one of the many links on the subject:
Please note this comment on the excerpt:
“The Constitution says everyone’s entitled to the attorney of their choice . . . The Constitution doesn’t say the lawyer has to be awake.”[18]
The Texas Court of Criminal Appeals agreed.
http://www2.bc.edu/~sydnor/10.html
The Dream Team. As further evidence of the incompetent legal representation that poor defendants receive in Texas, several attorneys for impoverished defendants seem to have been affected by “Sleeping Lawyer Syndrome.” George McFarland, indicted on capital murder charges in Houston, Texas, hired attorney John Benn to defend him. Mr. Benn spent four hours preparing for trial and “did not examine the crime scene, interviewed no witnesses, prepared no motions, did not request that any subpoenas be issued, relied solely on what was in the prosecutor’s file, and visited his client only twice.”[15] Moreover, once the actual trial began, he slept through much of it. A reporter noted, “Benn spent much of the trial in apparent deep sleep. His mouth kept falling open and his head lolled back on his shoulders and then he awakened just long enough to catch himself and sit upright. Then it happened again. And again. And again. Every time he opened his eyes, a different prosecution witness was on the stand describing another aspect of the November 19, 1991 arrest of George McFarland in the robbery-killing of Kenneth Kwan. When State District Judge Doug Shaver finally called a recess, Mr. Benn was asked if he truly had fallen asleep during a capital murder trial. ‘It’s boring,’ the 72-year-old longtime Houston lawyer explained . . . Court observers said Benn seems to have slept his way through virtually the entire trial.”[16]
Justice Shaver later recalled that he knew that Mr. Benn “wasn’t competent” and observed that Mr. Benn looked like “a heavy drinker” because of his rumpled clothes and watery red eyes.[17] Nevertheless, he denied that Mr. McFarland was denied adequate legal representation by his attorney. “The Constitution says everyone’s entitled to the attorney of their choice . . . The Constitution doesn’t say the lawyer has to be awake.”[18]
The Texas Court of Criminal Appeals agreed. They gave Mr. McFarland’s appeal to Marcelyn Curry, an inexperienced attorney who had never before handled a capital appeal. At the time, she had Hepatitis A, Hepatitis B, anemia, dizzy spells, and needed surgery. Ms. Curry recalls, “The Court of Appeals was informed of the fact that during this [appeals] process I was sick, I was in need of surgery and still they demanded a brief. All they wanted was a brief so that they could get the appeal behind them.”[19]
All but two of the Court’s justices voted to deny Mr. McFarland relief. The dissenting justices noted that Mr. Benn would sleep through a witnesses’ testimony, and then cross-examine the witness. They doubted that Mr. Benn could adequately represent Mr. McFarland with such methods, and asserted that “sleeping counsel is no counsel at all.”[20] Mr. McFarland’s case is now in federal appeals court.
[Edited at 2006-07-23 04:46]
[Edited at 2006-07-23 04:46]
[Edited at 2006-07-23 04:55] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Ford Prefect 
Burkina Faso
Local time: 02:31
German to English
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| Why rush to believe hearsay. | Jul 23, 2006 |
Google "intoxicado $71" and see how many conflicting versions of the story you get. Did the patient say it, or did his "relatives"? Or his girlfriend? Or his mother? Was he 18 or 22? And so on.
Then recall the person "interpreting" the word was not being employed in the capacity of interpreter. There may or may not be a case for medical negligence (if the case ever happened at all and this is not a Chinese-whisper that got out of hand), you may base the case on not providing an inte... See more Google "intoxicado $71" and see how many conflicting versions of the story you get. Did the patient say it, or did his "relatives"? Or his girlfriend? Or his mother? Was he 18 or 22? And so on.
Then recall the person "interpreting" the word was not being employed in the capacity of interpreter. There may or may not be a case for medical negligence (if the case ever happened at all and this is not a Chinese-whisper that got out of hand), you may base the case on not providing an interpreter if this was a requirement, but I cannot see how any reasonable system of justice would make this award based on a misinterpretation by someone who could not be expected to know the language at all.
There are no further case details attached to any of the descriptions I looked at. The only other consistent piece of information is the year - 1984. Sloppy journalism or myth? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Ford Prefect
Burkina Faso
Local time: 02:31
German to English
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| Reasonable assumptions, not cultural assumptions | Jul 23, 2006 |
Luis Arri Cibils wrote:
"Cultural assumptions" are unavoidable and to be expected. We "all know" that Hispanics are likely to be "intoxicated". Don't we?
It's actually very reasonable to assume that ANYONE turning up at accident and emergency could be intoxicated. Alcohol is quoted as being responsible for a minimum of 30% of emergency attendances. in the UK.
[Edited at 2006-07-23 09:51]
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| Not in this case | Jul 23, 2006 |
James Visanji DipTrans PhD wrote: Luis Arri Cibils wrote:
"Cultural assumptions" are unavoidable and to be expected. We "all know" that Hispanics are likely to be "intoxicated". Don't we?
It's actually very reasonable to assume that ANYONE turning up at accident and emergency could be intoxicated. Alcohol is quoted as being responsible for a minimum of 30% of emergency attendances. in the UK. [Edited at 2006-07-23 09:51]
That may be so. But in that case the assumption made was following the hospital's written protocol (at that time).
"At the time of the “incident” the hopital's written protocol was: "Hispanic-surnamed teenager admitted semi-conscious: assume drug overdose and pump stomach."
Is it also a rational assumption that all hispanic-surname teenagers are drug-overdosed?
And the victim had fallen from a truck, not driving it. She was not picked at the scene of the accident by an accident.
| | | | Clarisa Moraña
United States
Local time: 21:31
Member (2002)
English to Spanish
+ ...
| but don't let the assumption guide you | Jul 23, 2006 |
James Visanji DipTrans PhD wrote:
It's actually very reasonable to assume that ANYONE turning up at accident and emergency could be intoxicated. Alcohol is quoted as being responsible for a minimum of 30% of emergency attendances. in the UK.
[Edited at 2006-07-23 09:51]
My husband is diabetic, and he suffered a hypglucemic shock in his way to the job. The doctors assumed that he was intoxicated and failed to give him the basic care: a glucose-saline solution. He almost died. Thus, it should be very reasonable to assume that patients might have another problem rather than being intoxicated. BTW, he had his credential informing about his diabetic condition. Nobody checked it.
Regards
Clarisa
| | | | | Hearsay, expert opinion ... I don't know ... but malpractice seems the better term | Jul 23, 2006 |
James Visanji DipTrans PhD wrote:
Google "intoxicado $71" and see how many conflicting versions of the story you get. Did the patient say it, or did his "relatives"? Or his girlfriend? Or his mother? Was he 18 or 22? And so on.
Then recall the person "interpreting" the word was not being employed in the capacity of interpreter. There may or may not be a case for medical negligence (if the case ever happened at all and this is not a Chinese-whisper that got out of hand), you may base the case on not providing an interpreter if this was a requirement, but I cannot see how any reasonable system of justice would make this award based on a misinterpretation by someone who could not be expected to know the language at all.
There are no further case details attached to any of the descriptions I looked at. The only other consistent piece of information is the year - 1984. Sloppy journalism or myth?
The scientific article (which all the other Google hits refer too) comes from a repected scientific journal: The New England Journal of Medicine. I think its is relatively safe to assume that it was not a case of sloppy journalism or a myth.
Here I copy the pertinent excerpt, the article citation and the link to the full text.
Language Barriers to Health Care in the United States
Glenn Flores, M.D.
…
A Spanish-speaking 18-year-old had stumbled into his girlfriend’s home, told her he was “intoxicado,” and collapsed. When the girlfriend and her mother repeated
the term, the non–Spanish-speaking paramedics took it to mean “intoxicated”; the intended meaning was “nauseated.” After more than 36 hours in the hospital being worked up for a drug overdose, the comatose patient was reevaluated and given a diagnosis of intracerebellar hematoma with brain-stem compression and a subdural hematoma secondary to a ruptured artery. (The hospital ended up paying a $71 million malpractice settlement.)
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/reprint/355/3/229.pdf
n engl j med 355;3 www.nejm.org july 20, 2006
[Edited at 2006-07-23 15:08]
| | | | Rosa Maria Duenas Rios (X)
Local time: 22:31
| "The hospital ended up paying a $71 million malpractice settlement" | Jul 23, 2006 |
I think the above says it all.
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Monika Coulson
Local time: 20:31
Member (2001)
English to Albanian
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SITE LOCALIZER | A life wasted | Jul 23, 2006 |
IMHO, the little details do not matter that much. The bottom line is that a life has been wasted..., for such an easy thing and a right that everyone should have, such as getting an interpreter. Such a sad story...
Monika
James Visanji DipTrans PhD wrote:
Google "intoxicado $71" and see how many conflicting versions of the story you get. Did the patient say it, or did his "relatives"? Or his girlfriend? Or his mother? Was he 18 or 22? And so on.
Then recall the person "interpreting" the word was not being employed in the capacity of interpreter. There may or may not be a case for medical negligence (if the case ever happened at all and this is not a Chinese-whisper that got out of hand), you may base the case on not providing an interpreter if this was a requirement, but I cannot see how any reasonable system of justice would make this award based on a misinterpretation by someone who could not be expected to know the language at all.
There are no further case details attached to any of the descriptions I looked at. The only other consistent piece of information is the year - 1984. Sloppy journalism or myth?
| | | | Richard Creech
United States
Local time: 22:31
French to English
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| But it didn't stand | Jul 23, 2006 |
Indeed it is highly difficult to believe. Yet, it is true.
Thank you for providing the links Luis. As I expected, the "expert" testimony was not allowed to stand. As the link indicates, the U.S. Supreme Court (at the highly unusal request of the Texas Attorney General, who rarely tries to do convicted defendants a favor), vacated the death penalty and ordered a new penalty hearing.
| | | | Henry Hinds
United States
Local time: 20:31
English to Spanish
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In memoriam | Further cultural awareness | Jul 23, 2006 |
Those of us who have lived many years along the US-Mexico border are well aware of the extreme differences in the Spanish spoken in the community, which is anything but uniform even though the ethnicity is. It is a product of the personal background of the speaker. This is also true in any Spanish-speaking community in the US, and in other areas it may include a diverse mix of national origins. Also a factor is to what degree the English language and corruptions of Spanish by English-dominant Sp... See more Those of us who have lived many years along the US-Mexico border are well aware of the extreme differences in the Spanish spoken in the community, which is anything but uniform even though the ethnicity is. It is a product of the personal background of the speaker. This is also true in any Spanish-speaking community in the US, and in other areas it may include a diverse mix of national origins. Also a factor is to what degree the English language and corruptions of Spanish by English-dominant Spanish-speakers may have on any given person's speech.
We have in our community persons ranging from those who are well educated and speak perfect, educated Mexican Spanish; one might say the "best case", all the way to persons who have no schooling at all. We have monolingual Spanish-speakers from rural areas in Mexico who just crossed the border last week and we have other monolingual Spanish-speakers who were born in the US and have lived in the US their entire lives. We have those who have lived in Mexico for certain periods and for other periods in the US, with infinite variability. We have all kinds of situations in between.
The point is, in such situations there is no language "norm" and therefore no "absolute". The individual is the key, and as we know, no two persons on earth speak the same language, but this difference becomes greatly magnified when dealing with Spanish-speakers in the US.
This is a fascinating area for linguistic research of which I have done none, but some has been done. In my own practice what I have always tried to do is to "get in touch" with a person's background before interpreting so I can have an idea of what to expect.
For instance in legal depositions (which I no longer do) I would often initiate some "small talk" with the person to try to get a grasp on their level of Spanish, in addition to establishing a certain level of rapport. Just a couple of minutes would usually give me a good idea.
There has to be an awareness of all these factors to do a good job, and most certainly a desire to understand, not just by the interpreter, but by the persons who are using the interpreter's services. Furthermore, I would tend to fault the latter more than the former for any lack of understanding.
[Edited at 2006-07-23 17:26] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Cultural assumptions and Texas courts | Jul 23, 2006 |
Richard Creech wrote:
Indeed it is highly difficult to believe. Yet, it is true.
Thank you for providing the links Luis. As I expected, the "expert" testimony was not allowed to stand. As the link indicates, the U.S. Supreme Court (at the highly unusal request of the Texas Attorney General, who rarely tries to do convicted defendants a favor), vacated the death penalty and ordered a new penalty hearing.
As I stated in my original post, Richard, the testimony was admitted and left standing at the trial court level, (I did not know the result of the case until I read some of the articles I found to respond to your post; I left Texas in ther year 2000) and left standing by the Court of Criminal Appeals as "harmless error." Even after the US Supreme Court acted, the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals refused to provide for a new penalty phase hearing. One of the articles I quoted says:
"Two years ago this month [in 2002], Attorney General Cornyn first requested a new sentencing hearing in the case. The U.S. Supreme Court sent the case back to the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals in June 2000, but that court denied the Attorney General's request earlier this year."
The point of my post was not "indicting" the Texas legal system, not a topic for these fora, but to point out the operation and effects of certain "cultural assumptions". If this unconstitutional, unbelievable, overt assumption was left standing for those many years, even after the intervention of the U.S. Supreme Court, imagine the many covert, hidden, sometimes unconscious and not ill-willed cultural assumptions that an interpreter may have to face. Interpreters must be aware of them, and act accordingly. That was the only point of my message.
[Edited at 2006-07-23 17:44]
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Ford Prefect
Burkina Faso
Local time: 02:31
German to English
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Luis Arri Cibils wrote:
The scientific article (which all the other Google hits refer too) comes from a repected scientific journal: The New England Journal of Medicine. I think its is relatively safe to assume that it was not a case of sloppy journalism or a myth.
The article you reference is journalistic not scientific and will not have been subject to much review. They cite the following as their source for the "intoxicado" incident:
Pediatrics 111:6-14.
This in turn cites the following:
Harsham P. A misinterpreted word worth $71 million. Med Econ.1984; June :289 –292
On the basis of a single citation search, author search, and title search in Pubmed (where the journal is fully indexed), this article does not appear to exist.
I've tried to contact the author of the study in Pediatrics and will post again if we can trace this citation.
Moral of the tale: don't trust everything you read in NEJM, especially in the journalistic, as opposed to the scientific, sections.
"Hispanic-surnamed teenager admitted semi-conscious: assume drug overdose and pump stomach."
With the greatest of respect this was from another incident.
The protocol as you state it, is probably indefensible. Stomach pumping would be irrelevant to most recreational drug use, so there must be an exceptionally high rate of attempted suicide among this group of patients in this hospital's catchment area for such a policy to be relevant.
What is most ridiculous is that the protocol (even if there is a good reason for it, which is hard to imagine) was apparently followed with disregard for the circumstances in which the patient was admitted. The protocol should have been irrelevant given what the staff had before them.
Clarisa wrote:
but don't let the assumption guide you
Absolutely. It should have been very straightforward to establish the "intoxicado" patient was not under the influence of alcohol. Drugs may have taken longer, but that being the case, you do not have time to discount other possibilities before you find out.
Finding the cases that are out of the ordinary is what doctors are paid to do. They're also paid not to take what patients and relatives say at face value, especially if there is a language barrier.
Let's see first if we can find out any real information about this case.
[Edited at 2006-07-23 19:50]
| | | | | On references and quotes | Jul 23, 2006 |
James Visanji DipTrans PhD wrote:
On the basis of a single citation search, author search, and title search in Pubmed (where the journal is fully indexed), this article does not appear to exist.
I've tried to contact the author of the study in Pediatrics and will post again if we can trace this citation.
Moral of the tale: don't trust everything you read in NEJM, especially in the journalistic, as opposed to the scientific, sections.
Dear James,
I do not ever assume, did assume or ever will, either as a college professor, research scientist or lawyer (all things that I was and/or am) or as a translator/interpreter (which I also am). Below I am posting a list of some of the research or position papers I had found citing Harsham paper.
Granted, I did not find the specific citation, but in PubMed (after searching for Med Econ 1984) found the following article listed (full text not available, at least to me):
Harsham P.
Can Florida end its malpractice nightmare?
Med Econ. 1984 Sep 17;61(19):36, 39-41, 44-6. No abstract available.
PMID: 10268003 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Search&db=PubMed&term="Med%20Econ%201984"&tool=QuerySuggestion
We might consider, and search as such, that the specific reference is a note added later that year in support. The subject matter of the “main” article is on point.
Some of the papers I found citing Harsham's work:
http://www.apiahf.org/policy/ppt/language.htm
Speak My Language: Lax Interpreting May be a Root Cause of Medical Errors
http://www.ahcpub.com/hot_topics/?htid=1&httid=1307
The American Journal of Managed Care, September 2004 issue:
Providing Linguistically Appropriate Services to Persons With Limited English Proficiency: A Needs and Resources Investigation
Olivia Carter-Pokras, PhD; Marla J.F. O’Neill, MD; Vasana Cheanvechai, MD; Mikhail Menis, PharmD; Tao Fan; and Angelo Solera
http://www.ajmc.com/Article.cfm?Menu=1&ID=2684
“A 22-year-old non-English-speaking man in Miami was awarded a lifetime settlement of $71 million as a result of a missed stroke. The ER staff assumed his mother’s use of the word “intoxicado” meant he had a drug overdose. (Med Econ 1984, June:289-92)”
Language Access Resources
from Proceedings of the
Medical Leadership Council
on Language Access
Meetings 2002 - 2004
June 19, 2002
November 6, 2002
March 11, 2003
September 18, 2003
May 17, 2004
http://www.familydocs.org/assets/Multicultural_Health/Medical_Leadership_Council/MLC_Summary_Report_11-02-04.pdf
http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:_ZZBh1LSXIsJ:www.vdh.state.va.us/ohpp/documents/CLASact/language/Addressing.pdf%20"Med%20Econ%201984"&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=15
PEDIATRICS Vol. 111 No. 6 June 2003, pp. 1495-1497
Errors in Medical Interpretation: Our Concerns for Public Health and a Call for Caution
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/111/6/1495
In any event, those cited papers present many other cases that support the general statement regarding interpreting issues.
With the greatest of respect this was from another incident.
The protocol as you state it, is probably indefensible. Stomach pumping would be irrelevant to most recreational drug use, so there must be an exceptionally high rate of attempted suicide among this group of patients in this hospital's catchment area for such a policy to be relevant.
What is most ridiculous is that the protocol (even if there is a good reason for it, which is hard to imagine) was apparently followed with disregard for the circumstances in which the patient was admitted. The protocol should have been irrelevant given what the staff had before them.
Re the hospital’s protocol I quoted. I never presented it as referring t o the Florida 71 million dollar case.
I found it appropriate to cite it because:
(1) Both cases involved young Hispanics
(2) In both cases the young Hispanic was unconscious or semi conscious
(3) In both cases the assumption was made that they were cases of drug overdose
(4) The timeframe is approximately the same
Was the standard practice at that time for hospitals to make that kind of assumptions to facilitate ER proceedings?
Regards,
Luis
[Edited at 2006-07-23 21:43]
[Edited at 2006-07-23 21:44]
| | | | Ford Prefect
Burkina Faso
Local time: 02:31
German to English
+ ...
Luis Arri Cibils wrote:
Below I am posting a list of some of the research or position papers I had found citing Harsham paper.
All contain the same apparently inaccurate citation and post-date the citation in the Pediatrics paper referenced by NEJM. But let's track down the citation as the only possibilities are the article does exist but is omitted from the Pubmed database (rare but does happen) or people copying citations without checking them (which is not rare and happens all the time).
Granted, I did not find the specific citation, but in PubMed (after searching for Med Econ 1984) found the following article listed...
P Harsham has published at least 18 articles in Medical Economics (all look like editorials and commentaries).
In any event, those cited papers present many other cases that support the general statement regarding interpreting issues.
What was the general statement? I was querying, specifically, the accuracy of the $71M lawsuit claim - the title of the thread. I found several conflicting versions of the story - some describing the event as "recent" when it's over 20 years old. When I finally tracked down (through nested citations) the supposed source of the claim it isn't in the relevant index. Then I cannot find papers citing this article that predate the paper in Paediatrics - which was cited by the NEJM article ... None of this fills me with confidence about the veracity of the claim - if it is true, it will turn up and I will backpedal fast (I fully expect to have to do this - more than likely someone got the original citation wrong or we have the 1/1,000,000 event of a pubmed error).
The "general" issue for me here, is that an interpretation was allegedly offered by a non-professional interpreter, we don't even know if the "interpreter" spoke a single word of Spanish. We also don't know if the hospital was obliged to provide interpreting services and in what timeframe. Thus this settlement, if it was made, has little relevance to professional interpreters. It is, however, of relevance to American hospitals.
On the face of it this claim has more merit as medical malpractice than linguistic malpractice.
Was the standard practice at that time for hospitals to make that kind of assumptions to facilitate ER proceedings?
How could I know? Although I know nothing of the case, it seems patently ridiculous to apply it to someone who they had been informed was involved in an accident. Again, it looks like a medical issue rather than one of communication.
I am not in a position to comment on suggestions of racism or cultural bias in the American health care system. Race can be a legitimate part of your index of suspicion of several diseases: sickle-cell anaemia, diabetes and stomach cancer come immediately to mind. Whether there is such a high incidence of overdosing on ingested drugs among young Hispanics in that hospital's catchment area that you can base policies on it - again I am not qualified to comment, but it is surprising to say the least. Why such an assumption would be made of someone injured in a car crash is beyond me.
James
[Edited at 2006-07-23 22:29]
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