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Off topic: 2008 Olympic Games in Beijing
Thread poster: Renquan Yang
ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:48
English to Chinese
+ ...
I just want to say for the time being that Apr 9, 2008

Wenjer Leuschel wrote:

Good suggestion ...

If you really regard my suggestion as a good one, please stop practicing like this and stop accusing the moderator. I don’t think it would set a good example as what you defined in another posting. You should send your support request ticket with concrete evidence, if any.

We can’t afford to have another round of turmoil as what happened last year on the Chinese forum. We are tired of it! This is ProZ.com, not Tibet! No other comments for the time being.

Wenjer Leuschel wrote:

As the veteran Chinese community members all know, I have caused a kind of turmoil in the Chinese forum which lasted about four and half a month.

http://www.proz.com/forum/chinese/85201-an_apology:_reflection_on_my_faults.html


[Edited at 2008-04-09 07:17]


 
Libin PhD
Libin PhD  Identity Verified
Chinese to English
+ ...
Going through the support ticket channel is the best way Apr 9, 2008

I think going through the support ticket channel is the best way.

Challening the authority of the moderator in public and interfere with his/her work , also in public, are wrong. If I were a moderator, that will be enough reason for me to take someone out who does those things. Again, he or she can complain about my action via the support ticket channel. If the site managers think I am at fault, I will resign to take the responsibility. It is just that simple.


... See more
I think going through the support ticket channel is the best way.

Challening the authority of the moderator in public and interfere with his/her work , also in public, are wrong. If I were a moderator, that will be enough reason for me to take someone out who does those things. Again, he or she can complain about my action via the support ticket channel. If the site managers think I am at fault, I will resign to take the responsibility. It is just that simple.



[Edited at 2008-04-09 07:50]
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jyuan_us
jyuan_us  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 11:48
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
你可真愛法蘭西啊﹗ Apr 9, 2008

chance wrote:

六四运动好像是和平运动吧?结局呢?是谁的耻辱?

法兰西共和国不会做出那种耻辱的事!

Jason Ma wrote:

Shame on these PEACEFUL protestors and, no politics please.

[Edited at 2008-04-08 15:28]


高忙達賴嗚﹖


 
Yan Yuliang
Yan Yuliang  Identity Verified
Local time: 23:48
English to Chinese
+ ...
Question: Is Forum Policy Negotiable? Apr 9, 2008

Since you mention about "balance", I would venture to ask: the forum policy prohibits discussion on politics, and, as far as I see, the starter of this topic should be the one to blame for our discussion here. He is the one who started political discussion, and it is ridiculous to keep a balance between participating parties.

I hate to see this happen again and again here. So please, Kevin, just lock this thread up.

[修改时间: 2008-04-09 06:53]


 
CHEN-Ling
CHEN-Ling  Identity Verified
Local time: 23:48
Chinese to English
+ ...
春天来了 Apr 9, 2008

天气转暖,虫虫啊蚊子啊都多了,大家赶紧买蚊香。SupMan最环保,强力推荐啦!:D

 
Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Wenjer Leuschel (X)  Identity Verified
Taiwan
Local time: 23:48
English to Chinese
+ ...
To make some points clear Apr 9, 2008

With concrete evidence? How do you think about this thread? Let's examine what happens in this thread.

The thread was initiated as "Off top:" and changed to "2008 Olympic Games in Beijing" by the moderator to play down the offensiveness. The initial posting is not only offensive, but also politically incorrect. Why did the moderator let go of it? What agenda does he has in mind? Those are only some of my questions. Th
... See more
With concrete evidence? How do you think about this thread? Let's examine what happens in this thread.

The thread was initiated as "Off top:" and changed to "2008 Olympic Games in Beijing" by the moderator to play down the offensiveness. The initial posting is not only offensive, but also politically incorrect. Why did the moderator let go of it? What agenda does he has in mind? Those are only some of my questions. The right answers to these questions and those I stated in http://www.proz.com/post/829727#829727 could be horrible for this international translators' community.

ProZ.com is definitely no Tibet, not a part of China.
And the doors won't be shut to lynch any members of the community. Some of my postings were hidden away for invented reasons to create the impression that I am making trouble. But I am not. I am just defending my humanistic stand with soft voice.

You were one of those who helped in settling the turmoil last year. I was insisting upon my right of being a full member in the community while your agenda was something else: To get Jianjun Zhang out of the community. He was treat unfair, almost like I was. However, I am not going to let such unfairness happen again. For this reason, I insist upon my right as a full member at present, too. And I hope that everybody can stay and learn to get along with each other with respect, none will be shut up who talks reasonable. Here is a place where no one shall fear of suppression of any kind.

Yueyin Sun wrote:
Wenjer Leuschel wrote:

Good suggestion ...

If you really regard my suggestion as a good one, please stop practicing like this and stop accusing the moderator. I don’t think it would set a good example as what you defined in another posting. You should send your support request ticket with concrete evidence, if any.

We can’t afford to have another round of turmoil as what happened last year on the Chinese forum. We are tired of it! This is ProZ.com, not Tibet! No other comments for the time being.
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Yan Yuliang
Yan Yuliang  Identity Verified
Local time: 23:48
English to Chinese
+ ...
Agree Apr 9, 2008

尽管Wenjer经常讨论一些政治话题,我也并不喜欢,因为这违背了论坛礼仪规则。但政治是不可回避的话题,而在国际论坛上,这种争辩总会存在。因此,我可以理解诸位对于政治的讨论,但很少参与其中。

但这次我相信Wenjer不应负任何责任,相对于其他人而言,Wenjer的发言还是很公正的。希望Kevin能够以公正的态度面对这个话题,既然在其位,就要谋其政,这是最基�
... See more
尽管Wenjer经常讨论一些政治话题,我也并不喜欢,因为这违背了论坛礼仪规则。但政治是不可回避的话题,而在国际论坛上,这种争辩总会存在。因此,我可以理解诸位对于政治的讨论,但很少参与其中。

但这次我相信Wenjer不应负任何责任,相对于其他人而言,Wenjer的发言还是很公正的。希望Kevin能够以公正的态度面对这个话题,既然在其位,就要谋其政,这是最基本的。
Wenjer Leuschel wrote:

With concrete evidence? How do you think about this thread? Let's examine what happens in this thread.

The thread was initiated as "Off top:" and changed to "2008 Olympic Games in Beijing" by the moderator to play down the offensiveness. The initial posting is not only offensive, but also politically incorrect. Why did the moderator let go of it? What agenda does he has in mind? Those are only some of my questions. The right answers to these questions and those I stated in http://www.proz.com/post/829727#829727 could be horrible for this international translators' community.

ProZ.com is definitely no Tibet, not a part of China.
And the doors won't be shut to lynch any members of the community. Some of my postings were hidden away for invented reasons to create the impression that I am making trouble. But I am not. I am just defending my humanistic stand with soft voice.

You were one of those who helped in settling the turmoil last year. I was insisting upon my right of being a full member in the community while your agenda was something else: To get Jianjun Zhang out of the community. He was treat unfair, almost like I was. However, I am not going to let such unfairness happen again. For this reason, I insist upon my right as a full member at present, too. And I hope that everybody can stay and learn to get along with each other with respect, none will be shut up who talks reasonable. Here is a place where no one shall fear of suppression of any kind.

Yueyin Sun wrote:
Wenjer Leuschel wrote:

Good suggestion ...

If you really regard my suggestion as a good one, please stop practicing like this and stop accusing the moderator. I don’t think it would set a good example as what you defined in another posting. You should send your support request ticket with concrete evidence, if any.

We can’t afford to have another round of turmoil as what happened last year on the Chinese forum. We are tired of it! This is ProZ.com, not Tibet! No other comments for the time being.

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Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Wenjer Leuschel (X)  Identity Verified
Taiwan
Local time: 23:48
English to Chinese
+ ...
I would like to know of ... Apr 9, 2008

... your opinion on the English translation of the initial posting I provided somewhere above.

As I said before, it is very good to have learned several languages, because a language is just like a window through which we see more of the landscape outside. Without language barrier, we would see the world in another dimension, if we are allowed to see.

Confined in only one language and be restricted in a small room, we would not be able to see what is really going on out
... See more
... your opinion on the English translation of the initial posting I provided somewhere above.

As I said before, it is very good to have learned several languages, because a language is just like a window through which we see more of the landscape outside. Without language barrier, we would see the world in another dimension, if we are allowed to see.

Confined in only one language and be restricted in a small room, we would not be able to see what is really going on outside there. So, learn with open mind and you will understand more about the world and ourselves.

I wish you a great success in language learning. However, I would also like to know of your opinion on my translation of the initial posting.

Han Li wrote:

多学习几种语言很有必要

支持楼主,要不然别人羞辱我们,我们还不知道呢。
请看某些外国媒体是如何说我们的,我就不相信某些国家的新闻媒体都比国内“公正“,真不知道公正到何处了。
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Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Wenjer Leuschel (X)  Identity Verified
Taiwan
Local time: 23:48
English to Chinese
+ ...
Wow! Apr 9, 2008

You are just one of those "newbies" and you dare to support my opinion in this thread? Aren't you afraid of suppression later! They say it in Chinese 秋后算账 (reap the heads when it is autumn). Haven't you ever heard 识时务者为俊杰 (he who is a hero who knows which direction the wind blows), as they say in Chinese?

You probably know what they have said about "newbies," though the relating postings are already hidden?

Thank you for your open-mindedness and po
... See more
You are just one of those "newbies" and you dare to support my opinion in this thread? Aren't you afraid of suppression later! They say it in Chinese 秋后算账 (reap the heads when it is autumn). Haven't you ever heard 识时务者为俊杰 (he who is a hero who knows which direction the wind blows), as they say in Chinese?

You probably know what they have said about "newbies," though the relating postings are already hidden?

Thank you for your open-mindedness and political correctness. Actually, I would already appreciate so much the silent support from peers who don't howl with the wolves.

Yan Yuliang wrote:

尽管Wenjer经常讨论一些政治话题,我也并不喜欢,因为这违背了论坛礼仪规则。但政治是不可回避的话题,而在国际论坛上,这种争辩总会存在。因此,我可以理解诸位对于政治的讨论,但很少参与其中。

但这次我相信Wenjer不应负任何责任,相对于其他人而言,Wenjer的发言还是很公正的。希望Kevin能够以公正的态度面对这个话题,既然在其位,就要谋其政,这是最基本的。
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Yan Yuliang
Yan Yuliang  Identity Verified
Local time: 23:48
English to Chinese
+ ...
识时务者为俊杰 Apr 9, 2008

I guess there should be one less "who" in the English translation:

He is a hero who knows which way the wind blows.
OR
He who is a hero knows which way the wind blows.

Wenjer Leuschel wrote:

You are just one of those "newbies" and you dare to support my opinion in this thread? Aren't you afraid of suppression later! They say it in Chinese 秋后算账 (reap the heads when it is autumn). Haven't you ever heard 识时务者为俊杰 (he who is a hero who knows which direction the wind blows), as they say in Chinese?

You probably know what they have said about "newbies," though the relating postings are already hidden?

Thank you for your open-mindedness and political correctness. Actually, I would already appreciate so much the silent support from peers who don't howl with the wolves.


 
Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Wenjer Leuschel (X)  Identity Verified
Taiwan
Local time: 23:48
English to Chinese
+ ...
Thanks. Apr 9, 2008

I wrote in a rush.

Yan Yuliang wrote:

I guess there should be one less "who" in the English translation:

He is a hero who knows which way the wind blows.
OR
He who is a hero knows which way the wind blows.


 
isahuang
isahuang
Local time: 11:48
English to Chinese
+ ...
袁兄, Apr 9, 2008

jyuan_us wrote:

chance wrote:

六四运动好像是和平运动吧?结局呢?是谁的耻辱?

法兰西共和国不会做出那种耻辱的事!

Jason Ma wrote:

Shame on these PEACEFUL protestors and, no politics please.

[Edited at 2008-04-08 15:28]


高忙達賴嗚﹖


你这“高忙達賴嗚“是啥意思?我咋看不明白呢?是笔误,还是我落伍?还是效果?


 
chance (X)
chance (X)
French to Chinese
+ ...
几点说明: Apr 9, 2008

在伦敦和巴黎的抗议不是对中国人民的抗议,是对中国政府无视人权的抗议。

国际奥委会将2008奥运会评选给中国时,当时的中国政府是作出改善人权状况的保证的。相当多的法国人希望政府能够在人权问题上向中国政府表态,也希望中国政府能够开始与达赖对话,但是法国政府和一些其它国家政府一样,只看到中国的巨大经济市场而至今态度模棱两可。在这种情况�
... See more
在伦敦和巴黎的抗议不是对中国人民的抗议,是对中国政府无视人权的抗议。

国际奥委会将2008奥运会评选给中国时,当时的中国政府是作出改善人权状况的保证的。相当多的法国人希望政府能够在人权问题上向中国政府表态,也希望中国政府能够开始与达赖对话,但是法国政府和一些其它国家政府一样,只看到中国的巨大经济市场而至今态度模棱两可。在这种情况下,民间便会有人出来表示抗议,这在民主国家是常见的。

事实上,在巴黎的示威队伍中,藏人并非是主体,更多的是法国人权组织和法国普通民众。而他们要捍卫的正是奥运火炬应该代表的那些普世价值。

奥运会在古希腊开始那一天起,就象征着光明、团结、友谊、和平、正义。如果北京奥运火炬确实体现了它所象征的那些价值,当然应该受到尊重。如果传递火炬时,这一价值并没有同时传递,那么我们应该维护的是其价值而非火炬本身。

确实,有些抗议者粗暴抢夺火炬、或是强行灭火等方式并非无可厚非。但正如一位示威者向记者表示的那样,我并不想流血受伤。可如果不是这样的话,没有人听到我们的声音。与此同时,中国驻法大使馆也组织中国在法留学生及其他组织举行维护奥运火炬的行动。

在巴黎的火炬传递活动中,总指挥是中方,除了一次是技术问题,其它四次熄灭火炬并改乘车都是中方指挥或亲自动手熄灭的,包括最后缩短路程,也是中方的决定,这些都有现场直播和录像为证。整个过程,3000名法国警察的任务是配合中方组织者,维持秩序。同时,法国警方还要保证火炬传递人员的安全,也要保证抗议者的安全。说实话,在执行过程中,同时要保证这几方面是很不容易做到的。火炬传递在伦敦遇到类似抗议,2000名英国警察做了同样工作,但是由于英国政府明确表示参加奥运会开幕式,中国政府便决定让媒体表扬英国警方,指责法国警方。

2004奥运火炬传递所经之处均是节庆气氛,2008火炬传递气氛却大相径庭,也许应该想想是为什么?

[Edited at 2008-04-09 12:55]
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Donglai Lou (X)
Donglai Lou (X)  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 23:48
English to Chinese
+ ...
Kevin has my full support! Apr 9, 2008

Dear all,

Although it is another critical period for me to prepare for an important exam in June, I feel it is necessary to say something here.

First, why shouldn’t politics be talked about here?
1. When joining Proz.com, everyone needs to accept its policy which doesn’t allow members to talk about politics anywhere in its domain. If you don’t agree with the policy, you should not join the community.
2. Talking about politics has the risk of getting
... See more
Dear all,

Although it is another critical period for me to prepare for an important exam in June, I feel it is necessary to say something here.

First, why shouldn’t politics be talked about here?
1. When joining Proz.com, everyone needs to accept its policy which doesn’t allow members to talk about politics anywhere in its domain. If you don’t agree with the policy, you should not join the community.
2. Talking about politics has the risk of getting Proz banned in some area. This is unfair to translators living there.

Second, I believe that Kevin is a great moderator and does nothing wrong.
As a volunteer, Kevin has served our community for more than 7 years and sacrificed a lot of his personal time. He is trying to build a harmonious forum for all of us rather than for his personal interests or “agenda”. He wanted to resign sometime ago. It was us who asked him to stay. Thus, I have the reason to trust him in his ability and decision.

Moderation is a time-consuming and thorny job, which I never knew until I became a Kudoz moderator. Sometime, I reached some conclusion that may not be perfectly considerate. I hope every friend could be open-minded and doesn’t care about it too much. Hereby, please allow me to say thanks to those who understand our situations and give us support.

Third, Hi! Wenjer, I do admire your eloquence and talent, on which few people can beat you, and feel jealous about your time and energy. You may not be aware of your strong inclination to talk about politics or lead others to talk about it. However, going through your posts makes me feel that you are a person with firm political beliefs as well as strong will to force others to agree with you.

Let’s turn to something more constructive and beneficial.

Best regards,

Donglai Lou
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