 Track this topic | A témához tartozó oldalak: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | | Felhasználó | Téma indítója: Marinus Vesseur My first project in SDL Studio 2009 (Trados) |
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Marinus Vesseur 
Kanada
Local time: 06:28
 ProZ.com-tag
angol - holland
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | | SDL Studio as reliable as Microsoft Windows ... | Nov 2 |
... Windows 95, that is.
What to compare this pleasantly designed, multi-multi-tweakable piece of overloaded, convoluted technology to? A modern luxury car, made in Kazachstan? Angola's first attempt at a space rocket? It's not a Jaguar in an Austin body, more the other way around, in fact.
If only the main elements would work reliably and could be operated intuitively. Studio is only potentially brilliant. And another thing: most linguists are by default not very computer-savvy. Are linguists the only ones who know that? Studio needs a secondary, fool-proof mask. Call it SDL Stupido or Trados for Dummies or TransDuh (kidding about the name, not the concept) and make it SIMPLE and RELIABLE!
You put it quite succinctly:
Grzegorz Gryc wrote:
In few words, the difference between Trados and MemoQ is Trados has a lot of functions which don't work properly (especially the Multiterm related ones) while MemoQ has less functions but they basically work.
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I worked with MemoQ for an hour. Other than the tag handling it works really well. Not too many buttons and the key shortcuts are easily customized. The HTML preview is great. It looks like a workhorse, which is fine with me. The only thing: tag handling was solved better in TagEditor, because it puts the placeables where it estimates they belong and that often works for me. And I wonder how much work you'd have if your agency sends you Trados TM's and ttx files. Trados compatibility is a big worry here... I don't know yet.
Thank you for your comment. I hope I'm not insulting anyone in the great nations of Kazachstan, Angola or Great Britain by my comparisons.
[Edited at 2009-11-02 19:44 GMT]
  | | | | Jerzy Czopik
Németország
Local time: 15:28
  Tag (2003 óta)
lengyel - német
+ ...
| | MemoQ isn't that expensive | Nov 2 |
And for sure not 1000 USD for a single freelance licence.
But what I really do not understand: if you can go with MemoQ-concept, why do you have problems with Studio-concept? That's basicaly the same: open a file or create a new project and the program tells you what to do...
Studio SP1 is quite reliable piece of software, not in any way comparable to Win95. If you're looking for MS-comparisions, take Office 2003 - very stable and overloaded with many menu items, but still very usable.
And so is Studio: you can use its basic functions and be happy with that for a while or just go through some settings and create a default profile, making you happy for much longer period of time. And you don't have to be computer savvy. Definitely less computer savvy as with Trados 2007 and Tageditor, which you seem to use and understand...
When we are about comparing: I remember back in the early 2000's as BMW introduced the 7 series E65, equipped with iDrive... How many people have been critisizing this. Then the 5 series E60 came out with slightly modified iDrive. Most motor journalists have been reporting about having problems in using this (very easy indeed) system. But all of them have had mobiles and could use them at the same time... Now nearly all car producers do equip their cars with similar systems. And what do journalists say? The iDrive system is so easy to use compared to its competitors... This is really so - new things seem to be complicated for the first glance even if they are not! And Studio is definitely not that complicated, if you just wanna translate.
| | | | Stanislav Pokorny
Csehország
Local time: 15:28
angol - cseh
+ ...
| | Another Studio-bashing post | Nov 2 |
Hi Marinus,
I am sorry for your experience. I am definitely no computer guru (I'm more or less just a BFU), but it took me about a half an hour to get started with Studio back in May this year (Beta then).
If you look at ideas.sdl.com, you will see hundreds of ideas users want to have in translation software. So, there are basically two scenarios:
1. SDL forget about any ideas. Result: dozens of people complaining about SDL's arrogance
2. SDL implement the most important and voted-for ideas. Result: people complaining about Studio being overcomplicated.
My question: how do you want to implement two hundred ideas and keep the software simple at the same time? As for me, I don't find it complicated anyway. It is different from what we were used to in previous Trados versions.
Yes, Studio did have its bugs and glitches, but most of them have gone with SP1.
And if I look at the complaints, most of them could be avoided by searching the help shipped with Studio.
Good luck! 
PS: The second TM is unchecked by default. It is seen as a reference TM which usually is not, but can be updated. Therefore, if you want to update your reference TM, you have to check that option manually. Makes sense for me.
| | | | Marinus Vesseur
Kanada
Local time: 06:28
ProZ.com-tag
angol - holland
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | | Thanks, but no thanks. | Nov 2 |
Jerzy Czopik wrote:
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But what I really do not understand: if you can go with MemoQ-concept, why do you have problems with Studio-concept? That's basicaly the same: open a file or create a new project and the program tells you what to do...
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I removed the reference to the MemoQ price. I mistakenly looked at the Pro Version. A freelancer is obviously not a Pro to the MemoQ people, so it was "standard" that I needed, at currently only 149 USD. That's doable.
All I can say about my personal experience: I spent an entire day with Studio and effectively translated only two hours of work with enormous amounts of frustration and stress added and I spent about an hour with MemoQ and spent half of that time effectively working. No frustration, no stress.
Maybe it's just me, but I doubt it: I believe that the SDL developers thoroughly lack insight into the mind of the regular user. The most commonly used elements are priorities. They should appear first, very prominently and clearly. There should be a simple Quick Start window to lead you to the most commonly required work environment with the most commonly used (or those that were used last time) settings.
I respect your opinion and I'm glad it works for you, but for me, SDL Trados Studio turned out to be complicated, convoluted, over-engineered and wholly unreliable. That should suffice for a personal verdict.
| | | | Jerzy Czopik
Németország
Local time: 15:28
Tag (2003 óta)
lengyel - német
+ ...
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Stanislav's post brought me to this:
If you use more than one TM, DO NOT UPDATE all TMs at the same time during your work! If you do so, you will get multiple 100% matches (then counted as 99% because of 1% penalty for multiple 100% matches) and your work will not be carried out smoothly. Should you need to update all those TMs, chose the one which will be updated while you work and let the others not be updated in the same time. When you finish the job, update all TMs then using the corresponding batch task.
Making some settings upfront (language pairs and AutoSuggest dictionaries, termbases and the way AutoPropagation and AutoSuggest should work) will ensure your projects always having the right setting.
And regarding your AS-settings - showing suggestions after the 4th letter does not make much sense in my eyes, as the in most cases you can faster type the suggestion instead. My setting is 1 / 20, but I'm a very bad typist. For a good typist I would recommend 2 or 3 characters before AS matches should be shown. And I must admit, that showing 20 suggestions is also too much. On my netbook (a very slow one) I use 2 / 8 and this is working quite well. But as with all settings - they have to be found out individually.
| | | | Jerzy Czopik
Németország
Local time: 15:28
Tag (2003 óta)
lengyel - német
+ ...
| | Take a closer look at the "Home" screen in Studio | Nov 2 |
Marinus Vesseur wrote:
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Maybe it's just me, but I doubt it: I believe that the SDL developers thoroughly lack insight into the mind of the regular user. The most commonly used elements are priorities. They should appear first, very prominently and clearly. There should be a simple Quick Start window to lead you to the most commonly required work environment with the most commonly used (or those that were used last time) settings.
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This is exactly what you require and demand. Three main tasks there: Open document, Create a project and Open a project package.
These main tasks lead you to what you need. Provided you've done some basic settings, upgraded your TMs, created AS dictionaries and upgraded your termbases.
All this is done once, then you use it. It is exactly the same, as when you buy a new computer: you have to provide your username and password, configure the desktop background, arrange your files, make language settings and so on. If an average user can start using Windows and Office, he/she will also be able to use Studio. My opinion. Of course I respect other opinions, and I respect your too.
| | | | Stanislav Pokorny
Csehország
Local time: 15:28
angol - cseh
+ ...
| | SDL people are watching this forum | Nov 3 |
Hi Marinus,
just to add a few thoughts:
Yes, if you feel more comfortable about MemoQ, I don't think there's anybody here who would try to convince you otherwise. If MemoQ works for you, it's perfectly okay.
As regards the SDL insight (BTW, not SDL Insight - the former localization product  ), SDL people have kept a close eye on this forum for some time now. And they are usually very responsive to problems and ideas, sometimes posting here, sometimes contacting users privately through their profiles to resolve problems. Needless to add that such users, myself included, don't have a PSMA (I didn't have one until very recently). Like most other users, I used to be very dissapointed, to say the least, at the support level SDL had provided. But the past two years or so have seen a massive change in SDL's attitude and I would have to be a blinded fool if I didn't see that.
Studio certainly has many different options which have to hide somewhere. You would need to have five screens to display all the options and settings at the same time. But it's not because SDL wanted Studio to be complicated, it's because the users did. As I posted earlier, take a look at the number of new ideas on ideas.sdl.com. A brief look should be pretty self-explanatory.
It is not always an easy role to be the leader. You are expected to come up with new ideas. There are always problems when bringing out something new and innovative, simply because it has never been tried before.
Cheer up!
[Upraveno: 2009-11-03 01:05 GMT]
| | | | Marinus Vesseur
Kanada
Local time: 06:28
ProZ.com-tag
angol - holland
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | | How to update autosuggest dictionary on-the-fly | Nov 3 |
Gillian Searl wrote:
I checked about auto-suggest updating itself and the answer is, every now and again you have to do it manually. |
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For completeness' sake, since it came up: is it possible to do so on the fly, or do I have to generate an entirely new dictionary from the TM I am using? Has anyone ever done that? Does it work without a glitch?
Thanks
| | | | Stanislav Pokorny
Csehország
Local time: 15:28
angol - cseh
+ ...
| | A new dictionary, I'm afraid | Nov 3 |
Hi Marinus,
you have to create a new dictionary every now and then. I would suggest each time after adding some 30,000 new TUs.
| | | | Marinus Vesseur
Kanada
Local time: 06:28
ProZ.com-tag
angol - holland
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | | SDL Support did get in touch | Nov 3 |
Stanislav Pokorny wrote:
.. But the past two years or so have seen a massive change in SDL's attitude ...] |
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Yes, I know. Gareth Powell in fact took the initiative to contact me about an issue I had, although I was totally annoyed about the activation process, that, as you know, was pretty awful in the beginning. I would have gotten my money back for the upgrade to Studio, but then it was only about 150 dollars, so I left it.
Support is not great - I'm referring to the non-existing support of the website - but Gareth and Paul are doing their best, I know.
Some people are not compatible with some programs, let's just leave it at that.
As to Autosuggest's updating: wouldn't it be cool if you could at least analyze the document or project at hand to see which long words and names appear the most so you could translate them separately first, add them to Autosuggest and work from there. Now THAT would be a time-saver!
Thanks for your help.
- Marinus
[Edited at 2009-11-03 04:20 GMT]
| | | | Stanislav Pokorny
Csehország
Local time: 15:28
angol - cseh
+ ...
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Hi Marinus,
| Some people are not compatible with some programs, let's just leave it at that. |
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Nicely put indeed...
| Support is not great - I'm referring to the non-existing support of the website - but Gareth and Paul are doing their best, I know. |
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They have at least the KB. The problem is, if you want to serve 100,000 users out of which 80,000 ask you questions such as "where do I find the TM I updated yesterday" or "I'm desperate, how do I export my TM into TMX", you wouldn't be doing anything else then sitting on your buttocks and replying. That's why the PSMA exists.
| As to Autosuggest's updating: wouldn't it be cool if you could at least analyze the document or project at hand to see which long words and names appear the most so you could translate them separately first, add them to Autosuggest and work from there. Now THAT would be a time-saver! |
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 Yes, and I can imagine greedy agencies wanting discounts for that just like for any other fuzzy match. I better stick to the current scenario, I think.
| | | | Marinus Vesseur
Kanada
Local time: 06:28
ProZ.com-tag
angol - holland
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | | Updating AutoSuggest on the fly? | Nov 4 |
One question about the AutoSuggest Update:
If you have an open document in the Editor View, there is an option under FILE/Batch tasks/Update Project Translation Memories
If you click on it you get a window that offers a selection of "Batch tasks" (a set of processes one-after-the-other), "Update Project Translation Memories" being one of them.
If you click "Next" this is the window it shows:
Now the problem is that if you click "Finish" there is hard disk activity, but neither the TM nor the AutoSuggest dictionary appear updated - the date and size remain the same. When the process is finished there is NO result page. The window shows you NOTHING, except 0 errors, 0 messages. WHAT IS THIS?
So, although there seems to be a provision to update your TM and AS dictionary, it actually does not work and, in well-known Trados fashion, gives you no feedback. Man!
There may still have to be lot of tweaking and adjusting done on this AutoSuggest function.
By the way, after a complete reboot everything works again: MultiTerm is back and even offers quick suggestions a la AutoSuggest, Autotext and AutoSuggest work (though a little fickle: for some reason not consistently in every segment) and I can export the TM and import it into Trados 2007.
What still does not work: Saving the Target file (a tag-ridden Word doc in this case), importing an aligned TMX and the aforementioned TM and dictionary batch updating. Plus a few minor GUI errors.
Fair is fair: it runs stable, it's quick and AutoSuggest is cool.
Thanks for your reliable response.
- Marinus
Stanislav Pokorny wrote:
Hi Marinus,
you have to create a new dictionary every now and then. I would suggest each time after adding some 30,000 new TUs. |
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| | | | Richard Hall
Olaszország
Local time: 15:28
Tag (2002 óta)
olasz - angol
+ ...
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I noticed you needed to reboot to regain "full" functionality of Studio SP1. I wonder why the reboot is necessary? Is it to clear the memory, because Studio is so memory intensive? After about five minutes work I need to reboot to regain functionality of autosuggest and merge segments. Since I'm running Windows XP Pro with maximum RAM (4GB) and a dual core processor, I'm at a loss to explain why the reboots are necessary other than that the program, as you say, seriously needs tweaking.
| | | | Jerzy Czopik
Németország
Local time: 15:28
Tag (2003 óta)
lengyel - német
+ ...
| | No update for AutoSuggest and nothing like that planed AFAIK | Nov 4 |
And TBH, why should this be necessary?
You can use the AS dictionary as it comes. After your TM has grown you can simply create a new AS dictionary again. You can also use as many AS dictionaries as you wish for the language pair.
To have new words appearing with AutoSuggest use MultiTerm termbases and AutoText - this way you will have all what you need.
| | | | Marinus Vesseur
Kanada
Local time: 06:28
ProZ.com-tag
angol - holland
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | | AutoSuggest, MultiTerm and Autotext | Nov 4 |
Jerzy Czopik wrote:..
To have new words appearing with AutoSuggest use MultiTerm termbases and AutoText - this way you will have all what you need. |
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Point taken. That's what I'm doing now. If I realize that a certain long compound word keeps popping up, I add a MultiTerm term, so the next time it gets suggested in AutoSuggest style. Or not, sometimes, but for the moment it works.
thanks!
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